David Gower vs Graham Thorpe

[Coronis]

shouldn't Gower and Greenidge be comparable on the account of both averaging 44 while Greenidge opening but Gower having to face the ATG WI often.

Thats what I literally said. That he was competing with Greenidge and Crowe

 

[Johan]

Thats what I literally said. That he was competing with Greenidge and Crowe

maybe I'm high

 

[Johan]

Gower is closer to Greenidge than to Thorpe.

they are all on a similar level.

 

[subshakerz]

If we’re talking 80’s bats, and just from “opinion” like, if I’d never seen any stats for any player ever I’d think Gower was up there fighting for 5th with Greenidge and Crowe.

Hmm maybe I missed that.

 

[BazBall21]

Hmm maybe I missed that.

I don't look too much into peer ratings but Gower seems to do alright in that department incl with Lillee&Marshall.

 

[ma1978]

80s bats

Richards
Border
Gavaskar / Miandad (tiedj
Greenidge
Gower
Crowe
Lloyd
Vengsarkar
Richardson

 

[Johan]

80s bats

Richards
Border
Gavaskar / Miandad (tiedj
Greenidge
Gower
Crowe
Lloyd
Vengsarkar
Richardson

Gavaskar is two tiers above Javed.

 

[Johan]

I don't think decade breakdown makes much sense, it should be eras imo, I would say a huge change came with the 1975-76 Australia vs West Indies series, I'll use that as the starting point of the era and use that 2-2 England vs West Indies 1991 series as the end of an era as West Indies and England became competitive again. I'll count Martin Crowe.

IVA Richards (common sense)
SM Gavaskar
GS Chappell
AR Border
MD Crowe
MJ Miandad
DI Gower
CG Greenidge

sadly, Clive Lloyd and Geoffrey Boycott were hard done by the cut off dates, rest be assured they'd be there had I taken different cut off dated. Chappell was also effected, but he makes it in, anyway.

 

[ma1978]

Gavaskar is two tiers above Javed.

not in the 1980s and not ever really. Javed was elite

 

[Johan]

not in the 1980s and not ever really. Javed was elite

Eh, Cheat at home who bashed bad bowling with average away record.

 

[ma1978]

Eh, Cheat at home who bashed bad bowling with average away record.

yes that’s the English narrative. Hard to deal with the fact that Pakistan was just better.

 

[Johan]

yes that’s the English narrative. Hard to deal with the fact that Pakistan was just better.

sheesh, is your entire identity revolving around racial politics and victimization of every Asian country.

 

[ma1978]

sheesh, is your entire identity revolving around racial politics and victimization of every Asian country.

I call a spade and spade when I see it. I have no axe to grind when it comes to Pakistan cricket and you know your hatred from Miandad is for non cricketing reasons

 

[Johan]

I call a spade and spade when I see it. I have no axe to grind when it comes to Pakistan cricket and you know your hatred from Miandad is for non cricketing reasons

I think I understand what you're referencing, but considering I can put my personal feelings about Chris Benoit aside and judge Benoit as a wrestler, I'm pretty certain I can also put my personal feelings about Miandad and judge Javed as a Cricketer.

 

[sayon basak]

I call a spade and spade when I see it. I have no axe to grind when it comes to Pakistan cricket and you know your hatred from Miandad is for non cricketing reasons

On what basis are you assuming that? He literally mentioned Gavaskar being two tiers ahead, last time I checked, Gavaskar wasn't English.

 

[ma1978]

On what basis are you assuming that? He literally mentioned Gavaskar being two tiers ahead, last time I checked, Gavaskar wasn't English.

he was commenting earlier on Miandad’s family relations with Dawood which while problematic have nothing to do with cricket

 

[Johan]

Like I said, If I can separate the art from the artist while judging Chris Benoit, who is far worse than any Cricketer ever including Leslie Hylton, I'm more than confident I can judge Miandad rationally.

 

[Coronis]

Like I said, If I can separate the art from the artist while judging Chris Benoit, who is far worse than any Cricketer ever including Leslie Hylton, I'm more than confident I can judge Miandad rationally.

I’d like to hear from some of the guys who were around in the 80’s or have read extensively on the subject, but I don’t think I’ve ever read Gower > Miandad.

I would say in the 80’s from everything I’ve seen, there would be a general perception (not saying its my actual ranking or a correct ranking btw) by people of this

Richards

Border, Gavaskar, Miandad

Crowe, Greenidge, Gower

If including Chappell he’d be in that second tier.

 

[Johan]

I’d like to hear from some of the guys who were around in the 80’s or have read extensively on the subject, but I don’t think I’ve ever read Gower > Miandad.

Obviously I cannot confirm but I remember Peterhrt saying that the Australians in the 1980s percieved Gower as the best Batsman in the world, Allan Border called him the best Batsman in the world and in Lillee's book, he is listed as the third best Lillee bowled at, after IVA Richards and Gary Sobers. The Pakistani Cricketers of the era except the over-romanticised Qadir seem to have a pretty rough time in consensus due to the mature of their home tests, Imran and Javed being no exceptions. I'd say the skepticism is invalid for Imran but valid for Javed imho.

 

[Coronis]

Obviously I cannot confirm but I remember Peterhrt saying that the Australians in the 1980s percieved Gower as the best Batsman in the world, Allan Border called him the best Batsman in the world and in Lillee's book, he is listed as the third best Lillee bowled at, after IVA Richards and Gary Sobers. The Pakistani Cricketers of the era except the over-romanticised Qadir seem to have a pretty rough time in consensus due to the mature of their home tests, Imran and Javed being no exceptions. I'd say the skepticism is invalid for Imran but valid for Javed imho.

Yeah I mean I could be wrong. And lets be realistic, the answers would differ vastly depending upon the country where you asked it.

I think even nowadays Australians and South Africans aren’t proclaiming Cummins/Rabada > Bumrah. (though Indians were claiming Kohli > Smith iirc during their peaks)