Dale Steyn vs Wasim Akram vs Curtly Ambrose

[Bolo]

Fair point but Steyn still has the highest WPM remarkably. Pollock was in the twilight of his career, Kallis only bowled 20 overs per match. Morkel and Ntini were decent (Morkel has the fewest 5-fers for anyone with 300 wickets, I think).

I think Steyn also benefited from a solid batting line-up the most too.

Benefited in WPM from stronger batting outfit and less draws per era.

Lost out in WPM from the speed his teammates were striking at- guys like Morkel and ntini were not great bowlers, but they were great strike bowlers.

 

[trundler]

Benefited in WPM from stronger batting outfit and less draws per era.

Lost out in WPM from the speed his teammates were striking at- guys like Morkel and ntini were not great bowlers, but they were great strike bowlers.

That makes Marshall's stats even more remarkable. GOAT.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Benefited in WPM from stronger batting outfit and less draws per era.

Lost out in WPM from the speed his teammates were striking at- guys like Morkel and ntini were not great bowlers, but they were great strike bowlers.

But his average and SR arguably benefit from wickets falling at both ends as he spends more time bowling to new batsmen thanks to wickets he has not taken than still bowling to set batsmen.

 

[trundler]

But his average and SR arguably benefit from wickets falling at both ends as he spends more time bowling to new batsmen than to set batsmen.

There's also the fact that: 1) his home tests are in SA 2) runs are scored quicker so batsmen take more chances and therefore SRs will be higher.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

There's also the fact that: 1) his home tests are in SA 2) runs are scored quicker so batsmen take more chances and therefore SRs will be higher.

Just look at the average runs per wicket for all players during their home careers and see if there's needs to be an adjustment.

James Anderson and Ashwin/Jadeja are ones that springs to mind far more than Curtley, Dale or Wasim.

But if you're going to choose one place to excel in, it may as well be home.

 

[Bolo]

But his average and SR arguably benefit from wickets falling at both ends as he spends more time bowling to new batsmen thanks to wickets he has not taken than still bowling to set batsmen.

Likely. I don't know if we can say it had a meaningful impact though- might make virtually no difference.

 

[trundler]

Just look at the average runs per wicket for all players during their home careers and see if there's needs to be an adjustment.

James Anderson and Ashwin/Jadeja are ones that springs to mind far more than Curtley, Dale or Wasim.

But if you're going to choose one place to excel in, it may as well be home.

One would be insane to imply Steyn was a home-track bully. He's in the top echelon of fast bowling greats because he's great everywhere. The point was that playing in SA is better than playing on the flat tracks of WI and Pakistan.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Likely. I don't know if we can say it had a meaningful impact though- might make virtually no difference.

Oh the batting trend is already proven. It is which bowler got the benefit of it the most often that is difficult to prove without going through individual scorecards.

https://www.quora.com/Which-number-or-score-has-seen-the-maximum-dismissals-in-Cricket

0 8039
1 3208
10 1444
15 1098

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't think you can really split these guys regardless. When statistically players are so similar any differences could easily be a result of their individual experiences, opponents and conditions. If they played in each other's teams who knows whether their stats would have been any different. In the end which one you choose largely comes down to personal preference.

Personally I go with Akram because I think he played in tougher fast bowling conditions, though you could argue that it suited his style (reverse swing etc.).

 

[trundler]

Oh the batting trend is already proven. It is which bowler got the benefit of it the most often that is difficult to prove without going through individual scorecards.

https://www.quora.com/Which-number-or-score-has-seen-the-maximum-dismissals-in-Cricket

0 8039
1 3208
10 1444
15 1098

Steyn is still leaps and bounds ahead of the nest best in his time though. Interesting to consider still.

 

[trundler]

I don't think you can really split these guys regardless. When statistically players are so similar any differences could easily be a result of their individual experiences, opponents and conditions. If they played in each other's teams who knows whether their stats would have been any different. In the end which one you choose largely comes down to personal preference.

Personally I go with Akram because I think he played in tougher fast bowling conditions, though you could argue that it suited his style (reverse swing etc.).

I don't buy that argument much. It factors in to an extent but hey there's koalas that evolved specifically to eat ****ing eucalyptus and who knows if they'd be better off eating better stuff but they dont and they're fine eating eucalyptus. Point is, Akram's style was forged by his circumstances and who knows if he would have been worse off playing for Western Australia or something.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I don't think you can really split these guys regardless. When statistically players are so similar any differences could easily be a result of their individual experiences, opponents and conditions. If they played in each other's teams who knows whether their stats would have been any different. In the end which one you choose largely comes down to personal preference.

Personally I go with Akram because I think he played in tougher fast bowling conditions, though you could argue that it suited his style (reverse swing etc.).

Younis averages 20.29 in Pakistan for his career. I just don't think Imran would like at himself, Waqar and Wasim and say give Mushtaq a dustbowl to bowl on please.

 

[Bolo]

Oh the batting trend is already proven. It is which bowler got the benefit of it the most often that is difficult to prove without going through individual scorecards.

https://www.quora.com/Which-number-or-score-has-seen-the-maximum-dismissals-in-Cricket

0 8039
1 3208
10 1444
15 1098

This is simply an obvious fact. No way to extrapolate from this info to meaningful impact.

Bear in mind that if his teammates are striking faster, they will be striking faster against newer batsmen as well, giving Steyn less chance to bowl at them. They will also be giving away more free runs, allowing bats to get off these low scores quickly- letting them settle faster if you are using runs scored rather than time at the crease.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

This is simply an obvious fact. No way to extrapolate from this info to meaningful impact.

Bear in mind that if his teammates are striking faster, they will be striking faster against newer batsmen as well, giving Steyn less chance to bowl at them. [this is competition for wickets in wpm, but it can help lead to a longer second innings chance to bowl at them :P] They will also be giving away more free runs, allowing bats to get off these low scores quickly- letting them settle faster if you are using runs scored rather than time at the crease.

I don't get your second point. What are you suggesting here?

 

[Daemon]

I like to compare with peers and Steyn was about about 6 levels clear of anyone else for large parts of his career.

How long was Ambrose #1 for?

 

[TheJediBrah]

I don't buy that argument much. It factors in to an extent but hey there's koalas that evolved specifically to eat ****ing eucalyptus and who knows if they'd be better off eating better stuff but they dont and they're fine eating eucalyptus. Point is, Akram's style was forged by his circumstances and who knows if he would have been worse off playing for Western Australia or something.

I was actually going to say exactly that as well but cbf'd. No doubt Akram's style was suited to his home conditions because of adaptation. It's just personal preference as I said, cause I can't really come up with much to split them.

 

[Bolo]

Younis averages 20.29 in Pakistan for his career. I just don't think Imran would like at himself, Waqar and Wasim and say give Mushtaq a dustbowl to bowl on please.

I'll buy the argument for Curtley on home conditions. Akram got a ton of his wickets from reverse. I think he benefited from home conditions as much as Steyn did.

Steyn had a much tougher job on away conditions than either.

 

[trundler]

For Steyn to average almost the same in Asia as his career average is simply stunning.

 

[trundler]

I was actually going to say exactly that as well but cbf'd. No doubt Akram's style was suited to his home conditions because of adaptation. It's just personal preference as I said, cause I can't really come up with much to split them.

And I thought my koala example was bizarre

 

[trundler]

Imran averages around 20 at home but over 25 in England. One would assume that his fast-medium swing bowling would be suited to England more than Pakistan but that's how it is.