Dale Steyn vs Imran khan

[subshakerz]

Would love to see stats for runs conceded by Steyn per test and how it measures up to:
- other top/world class bowlers of his time
- other ATG bowlers, but this would probably need adjusting to some extent for eras

My impression is that the ER is a bit of a false angle because he also bundled them out quicker owing to his high SR and high WPM (5+ for like 60 tests?)

Like x bowler might concede 100 runs in a test in 40 overs - 2.5 ER
While Steyn might concede 80 but in 25, so 3.25.

But he’s also conceded less runs…

I think it was something like Steyn taking 4.7 wickets per test while conceding 108 runs in 33 overs, compared to Ambrose taking 4.1 wickets a test while conceding 86 runs in 37 overs. McGrath was around 4.5 wickets a test for 98 runs in 39 overs. I can do for Imran but its a bit unfair since he played quite a few tests as a pure bat. Hadlee was around 5 wickets a test for 111 in 42 overs. Marshall 4.6 wickets per test for 97 runs in 36 overs. Lillee was around 5 wickets a test for 121 runs in 43 overs. Wasim 4 wickets a test for 93 runs in 36 overs a match.

So for whatever reason, Steyn bowled less than the others but conceded more runs except for Hadlee. For what its worth Morkel and Philander bowled even less per test than him for some reason.

 

[Bolo.]

Would love to see stats for runs conceded by Steyn per test and how it measures up to:
- other top/world class bowlers of his time
- other ATG bowlers, but this would probably need adjusting to some extent for eras

My impression is that the ER is a bit of a false angle because he also bundled them out quicker owing to his high SR and high WPM (5+ for like 60 tests?)

Like x bowler might concede 100 runs in a test in 40 overs - 2.5 ER
While Steyn might concede 80 but in 25, so 3.25.

But he’s also conceded less runs…

By ATG standards, he has a middling average and a very high WPM. This puts in as one of the highest RPT bowlers. Lillee would have gone for a fair few more, and a few bowlers a similar amount, but he is well above normal-he is 15-20% ahead of a bunch of ATGs in WPM, and guys who average 15-20% more than him don't normally make ATG lists.

 

[subshakerz]

By ATG standards, he has a middling average and a very high WPM. This puts in as one of the highest RPT bowlers. Lillee would have gone for a fair few more, and a few bowlers a similar amount, but he is well above normal-he is 15-20% ahead of a bunch of ATGs in WPM, and guys who average 15-20% more than him don't normally make ATG lists.

Steyn is a weird case:

- Unusually low SR
- Unusually high ER
- Unusually low overs per match
- Unusually high runs per match

 

[BazBall21]

Lillee and Hadlee both bowled a lot more than average

 

[srbhkshk]

I think it was something like Steyn taking 4.7 wickets per test while conceding 108 runs in 33 overs, compared to Ambrose taking 4.1 wickets a test while conceding 86 runs in 37 overs. McGrath was around 4.5 wickets a test for 98 runs in 39 overs. I can do for Imran but its a bit unfair since he played quite a few tests as a pure bat. Hadlee was around 5 wickets a test for 111 in 42 overs. Marshall 4.6 wickets per test for 97 runs in 36 overs. Lillee was around 5 wickets a test for 121 runs in 43 overs. Wasim 4 wickets a test for 93 runs in 36 overs a match.

It's not rocket science, they all average roughly the same so whoever takes more wickets also concedes more runs.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

I think it was something like Steyn taking 4.7 wickets per test while conceding 108 runs in 33 overs, compared to Ambrose taking 4.1 wickets a test while conceding 86 runs in 37 overs. McGrath was around 4.5 wickets a test for 98 runs in 39 overs. I can do for Imran but its a bit unfair since he played quite a few tests as a pure bat. Hadlee was around 5 wickets a test for 111 in 42 overs. Marshall 4.6 wickets per test for 97 runs in 36 overs. Lillee was around 5 wickets a test for 121 runs in 43 overs. Wasim 4 wickets a test for 93 runs in 36 overs a match.

So for whatever reason, Steyn bowled less than the others but conceded more runs except for Hadlee. For what its worth Morkel and Philander bowled even less per test than him for some reason.

Do it per innings

 

[Bolo.]

Steyn is a weird case:

- Unusually low SR
- Unusually high ER
- Unusually low overs per match
- Unusually high runs per match

Nothing strange about any of this.

-The lowest SR bowlers are almost always going to have high ERs. They are hunting wickets, not waiting for mistakes, and this means allowing themselves to get hit.
-They are usually going to have low overs per match- they are not bowling within themselves, so get tired. And they knock teams over.
-He played in an era of high batting averages and very high batting SRs. His style, and the fact that he was his teams go-to mean he is going for plenty.

 

[honestbharani]

Struggle to reconcile these two posts.

A vain attempt with any of saltshakerz' posts tbf.

 

[_00_deathscar]

So here's what I'm finding...

Steyn conceded 58 runs per innings.
This initially seems to compare very poorly in relation to McGrath (50) and Ambrose (47) but more favourably with Donald (57 - weird actually...especially given the respective eras of the two players, but Pollock is much lower).

However, Steyn also played many of his tests with Philander (42) - nicely making 100 for their main bowlers per innings.

In comparison, if you add the main bowlers, you get:
McGrath + Gillespie (49) = 100
Ambrose + Walsh (53) = 100

But Steyn and Philander took their wickets at a much, much quicker rate. Steyn's job was to take wickets.

Of course this is extremely rudimentary, and there's more to the attack than just the two main bowlers (and my guess is the Australian attack generally conceded the least runs) but it kind of gives you an idea of how they worked as pairs/as units.

In short, Steyn conceded more runs, yes. But there was another end keeping it tight - not affecting the overall output on the whole. But they took wickets, bucketloads of them, at a very quick pace (as per the low number of overs bowled per match).

Generally, the better teams also just concede less runs (partly also to do with era, partly about where they play a lot of tests, and very largely to do with overall how good the team is - Wasim and Waqar conceded 110 runs per test for example).

 

[Kirkut]

I am not one that believes that bowling mainly in Asia is tougher for pacers they grow up in these conditions so they learn to adjust and it makes it there preferred conditions t but I genuinely think for a batter to adjust from a high bounce conditions is easier to low bounce then vice versa. So a SENAW batsman should find it easier to handle pacers in Asia in comparison to Asian batsman playing in SENAW

Not always true, someone like Alec Stewart may find it easier to handle steep bounce from Ambrose with that big backlift rather than facing Vaas on slow SL wickets.

 

[subshakerz]

So here's what I'm finding...

Steyn conceded 58 runs per innings.
This initially seems to compare very poorly in relation to McGrath (50) and Ambrose (47) but more favourably with Donald (57 - weird actually...especially given the respective eras of the two players, but Pollock is much lower).

However, Steyn also played many of his tests with Philander (42) - nicely making 100 for their main bowlers per innings.

In comparison, if you add the main bowlers, you get:
McGrath + Gillespie (49) = 100
Ambrose + Walsh (53) = 100

But Steyn and Philander took their wickets at a much, much quicker rate. Steyn's job was to take wickets.

Of course this is extremely rudimentary, and there's more to the attack than just the two main bowlers (and my guess is the Australian attack generally conceded the least runs) but it kind of gives you an idea of how they worked as pairs/as units.

In short, Steyn conceded more runs, yes. But there was another end keeping it tight - not affecting the overall output on the whole. But they took wickets, bucketloads of them, at a very quick pace (as per the low number of overs bowled per match).

Generally, the better teams also just concede less runs (partly also to do with era, partly about where they play a lot of tests, and very largely to do with overall how good the team is - Wasim and Waqar conceded 110 runs per test for example).

Philander only emerged in 2011, half way thru Steyn's peak. Until then, he had Morkel as the next bowler who was almost as expensive as Steyn himself.