Johan
Hall of Fame Member
a twist on the usual format of this thread, inspired by @subshakerz and I wanna see the general opinion on this.
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Curtly Ambrose vs Dennis Lillee
- Thread starter Johan
- Start date
subshakerz
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Lillee easily
DrWolverine
International Captain
DrWolverine
International Captain
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
What were the runs per wicket in each of those conditions?
DrWolverine
International Captain
Dennis Lillee
1. He took 5.5 WPM. Ambrose took 3.9 WPM.
2. He took a five-wicket haul nearly twice as often. Lillee once every 2.9 matches versus Ambrose’s 4.7.
subshakerz
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Yeah and a big difference in SR.
Honestly there is a problem on Sr with blind average workshop
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
Looks like there were more runs scored per wicket in Lillee's home matches than Ambrose's. I think that combined with the extra output of Lillee I'll put him marginally ahead at home compared to Ambrose.
Ambrose though, obviously the much better away player.
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
Some Interesting context.
When Ambrose debuted, he had a terrible series at home as he was still figuring out test Cricket, and then he went to Australia and England and had his true breakthrough there, then he came back, got sick and was nowhere near 100% against India at home. Due to one bad debut series and one where he had genuine health problems. Ambrose after 17 Tests was averaging 27 with the ball and had taken 60 Test Wickets in 33 innings.
At the end of the 1980s – At home, Ambrose had played 7 Tests and taken only 12 wickets in 13 innings at an average of 53 but overseas he had played 10 Tests and taken 48 wickets in 20 innings at an average of 20.
once the novelty of debut series and a series with health concern wore from, from 1990 to the end of his career, Ambrose in West Indies took 191 wickets in 80 innings at an average of 19 and a strike rate of 52, he was taking 2.4 wickets an inning too for reference, would likely be 2.5+ if not for Walsh. Basically, outside of his debut series and one series where he was genuinely ill/had health concerns, his very first two series at home, Ambrose was an absolute beast at home.
When Ambrose debuted, he had a terrible series at home as he was still figuring out test Cricket, and then he went to Australia and England and had his true breakthrough there, then he came back, got sick and was nowhere near 100% against India at home. Due to one bad debut series and one where he had genuine health problems. Ambrose after 17 Tests was averaging 27 with the ball and had taken 60 Test Wickets in 33 innings.
At the end of the 1980s – At home, Ambrose had played 7 Tests and taken only 12 wickets in 13 innings at an average of 53 but overseas he had played 10 Tests and taken 48 wickets in 20 innings at an average of 20.
once the novelty of debut series and a series with health concern wore from, from 1990 to the end of his career, Ambrose in West Indies took 191 wickets in 80 innings at an average of 19 and a strike rate of 52, he was taking 2.4 wickets an inning too for reference, would likely be 2.5+ if not for Walsh. Basically, outside of his debut series and one series where he was genuinely ill/had health concerns, his very first two series at home, Ambrose was an absolute beast at home.
subshakerz
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I'm sure a lot of cricketers are better once you remove debut series.
Btw the 2.4 is still a far cry from Lillee at home (2.75). And of course Lillee has a better SR.
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
Iffy case, not always true
subshakerz
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I mean it's true with Lillee but you didn't exclude it from his home record.
The difference between their WPI remains around 0.4
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
wait how? he averaged 24 in debut series
subshakerz
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Sure but it makes a minor impact on his WPI.
It's weird you will call Ambrose a beast once you remove those bad series but Lillee with a much better SR and WPI you won't.
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
Lillee at home was a beast too
subshakerz
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Thanks glad you can admit that.
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
I have him higher than most and most have him as ATG, what did you exactly think I thought of his home record
subshakerz
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That's it's not particularly impressive since he averages 23. Cant blame me for getting that impression.
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
It's below Freddie's but it is good, pretty good