DrWolverine
International Captain
Primary discipline only
-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
Choose one combo : Hutton & Bumrah vs Richards & Akram
- Thread starter DrWolverine
- Start date
Thala_0710
International Captain
Richards beats Hutton and Bumrah isn't above Akram for me yet. So easy decision
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
I have Viv still ahead of Hutton, and I think that Bumrah is qualitatively better than Wasim, but has he passed him the rankings as yet?
For me, not quite.
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
I feel Bumrah is just more penetrative against good lineups tbh, the way he ripped Australia apart was not something I've seen since Ambrose and McGrath
Thala_0710
International Captain
I would agree on this. But still needs a bit more volume ranking wise imo
Johan
Hall of Fame Member
maybe, but even if he averages 25 for over next 10 tests and hits 250 I'll have him ahead of Wasim, just more skilled imo. plus, I've no opinion on Hutton vs Viv rn
Thala_0710
International Captain
Yeah the 50 wkts @25 thing is fair enough imo.
Although his next tests our against ENG in ENG and WI at home. Expect a better effort than this
DrWolverine
International Captain
If Bumrah is fully fit for 5 Tests in England, I wish he does so well that his average goes below 19 since I have never seen those kind of numbers for bowler with 50 Tests
Thala_0710
International Captain
25 wkts @15.72 would do it. So it's not out of the realms of possibility
Thala_0710
International Captain
Will depend on the pitches too imo. Also, what Bumrah has improved upon is his new ball accuracy. He was great with older ball earlier but only good with the new one. With that added to the arsenal, anything is possible.
capt_Luffy
Hall of Fame Member
Hey folks, hold your horses pleases. These are bonkers numbers you are demanding, won't say ain't optimistic of this possibility, but don't jinx him like NZ
Thala_0710
International Captain
It's definitely not what I'm expecting. His average going over 20 is much more likely as opposed to below 19. But a man can hope!
DrWolverine
International Captain
Bowlers I enjoy(ed) the most(in chronological order)
Early 1990s Ambrose
Late 1990s Donald
Peak Shoaib
Steyn
Bumrah
Early 1990s Ambrose
Late 1990s Donald
Peak Shoaib
Steyn
Bumrah
capt_Luffy
Hall of Fame Member
Anyways, it's like a Bumrah vs Wasim as Hutton and Viv are practically very close. Don't think can say Bumrah has surpassed Wasim yet. Man played for 17 years as a pacer, Bumrah isn't the most consistent when it comes to hitting the ground.
DrWolverine
International Captain
I do not think he will average below 18.99. The chances of that happening is almost zero.
Just saying I wish it happens since no bowler with 100+ wickets has achieved a sub 19 average since the legendary Sydney Barnes retired.
subshakerz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Too early to declare him that.
3-4 tests against weaker teams like WI/SL may have done it.
I think if Bumrah had played more tests against bottom half test sides , we may have already seen sub 19 by now. To put it in context,
In matches involving top half(85% of his career ) : 39 tests - 171 wickets Avg 21.2 SR 45
In matches involving bottom half ( 15% of career) : 6 tests - 34 wickets Avg 10.3 SR 23
And those 85% games game mostly away from home. Many may think that it's easier to bowl away for great Asian pacers. I don't think that's necessarily the case against top half sides. Wasim, Waqar, IK all of them had better outputs at home against top test teams.
Just take Wasim for example, Avg 27 and SR 60 plus. Many casual fans may not even think that It's Wasim's output
Wasim in away tests involving top half teams during his career,
Same trend for IK and Waqar. I don't buy the argument that Asian pacers are likely to do better away. History shows that it's harder to do well away against top teams and Bumrah has picked majority of wickets away against top half sides.
Bumrah,
In matches involving top half(85% of his career ) : 39 tests - 171 wickets Avg 21.2 SR 45
In matches involving bottom half ( 15% of career) : 6 tests - 34 wickets Avg 10.3 SR 23
-------------
Wasim had 180 odd wickets in tests involving top half and Bumrah has 170 odd wickets with a lot lower SR and AVG. So nothing to see there.
I don't think he needs to avg 25 in Eng or any other top venues because Wasim himself was averaging 27 away against top teams and Bumrah's lead is a large one. Wasim's high avg is not due to some extreme situation because many others greats played at the same time.
May be people find 171 wickets too few to compensate for lack of wickets tally against bottom half. In bottom half, Pakistan is out of question for Bumrah and I doubt that he is going to play too many tests against WI/SL/BD/Zim. Given his history, he will blow Wasim's number out with 10-15 additional tests against bottom half. I personally don't need to see that to rate Bumrah a bit higher than Wasim. I do note that Eng and NZ were decent teams during Wasim's time, but Wasim was not great against Eng to begin with. You are then left with NZ and non-minnow phase of SL. I think drawing a line at top 5 is good proxy for quality even if not ideal when we are dealing with only 7-8 non-minnows teams.
Many fans may want to see 171 or 34 tally going up before rating BUmrah ahead of Wasim. That's fine too. I think for most fans it will be marginal one way or another. I don't rate Bumrah too higher as well right now, but with each next 25 high quality wickets at a good avg( 24-26) he is simply clearing the distance from Wasim for me. With lower avg than that, the gap will start becoming wider at a faster pace. Right now, Bumrah is only marginally ahead.