Brian lara vs steve smith

[capt_Luffy]

Hutton is fine as a dour opener as it was a necessary evil.

I prefer bats in top tier who are aggressive.

So..... You will genuinely not rate him for being the perfect bat he was needed to be??? That's extremely dumb really.

 

[Johan]

You can't do this, when convenient you point to reputation of the time for Compton and when not you point to SR for Hutton.

He was a defensive bat. Get over it.

Nobody thought of Hutton as anything but a conservative batsman by choice which I said pages ago.

He was a logical player, playing for his teams wins rather than to abide by a warped view of Cricket, get over it.

 

[Johan]

I think aggressive and slow bats both have their place. Ideally a team should have both and I don’t really have a preference when rating batsmen.

Controversial take

This is definitely true, tho I'd say I prefer my opener to be defensive and my MO bat to be a little more aggressive, fast openers are not gonna change anything, if they did Ben Duckett would be elite.

 

[subshakerz]

Nobody thought of Hutton as anything but a conservative batsman by choice which I said pages ago.

That's not true, Ive read different accounts that suggested it was his preference to be sedate. It doesn't matter much though since in practice he was mostly dour.

Bottomline is he was conservative so we can make our judgments from there.

 

[subshakerz]

So..... You will genuinely not rate him for being the perfect bat he was needed to be??? That's extremely dumb really.

He can be perfect in a role that is ever so slightly less meritorious from the perspective of batsmanship as I see it.

 

[Johan]

That's not true, Ive read different accounts that said it was his preference to be sedate. It doesn't matter much though since in practice he was mostly dour.

Bottomline is he was conservative so we can make our judgments from there.

conservative openers > MO bats who throw their wicket away.

also, his reputation is as one of the greatest strokemakers in the sport.

 

[subshakerz]

conservative openers > MO bats who throw their wicket away

Thanks that's called a strawman.

 

[sayon basak]

Seems like Harry brook has a great future in the CW rankings.

 

[Johan]

Thanks that's called a strawman.

not really a strawman, I'm just telling you your whole understanding of Batsmanship is kind of incorrect

 

[subshakerz]

fast openers are not gonna change anything, if they did Ben Duckett would be elite.

BazBall did show that you can throw many bowlers off their game by aggressive play. Of course bowlers have to adjust but it definitely happened otherwise England wouldn't have chased all those scores.

 

[Johan]

BazBall did show that you can throw many bowlers off their game by aggressive play. Of course bowlers have to adjust but it definitely happened otherwise England wouldn't have chased all those scores.

Bazball

2-2 Home Ashes
1-4 loss in India
1-2 loss in Pakistan

epic. Infact, had England played proper normal people Cricket in the Ashes when the situation required, they'd have won, playing according to situation/context is once again more relevant.

 

[subshakerz]

not really a strawman, I'm just telling you your whole understanding of Batsmanship is kind of incorrect

Your conception of why it's incorrect is based off a strawman. Since we already agree it's fine for openers to be conservative.

The issue is you want to have your cake and eat it too with Hutton on his conservatism.

 

[subshakerz]

Bazball

2-2 Home Ashes
1-4 loss in India
1-2 loss in Pakistan

epic. Infact, had England played proper normal people Cricket in the Ashes when the situation required, they'd have won, playing according to situation/context is once again more relevant.

I mean there were a string of better scorelines before that.

Obviously BazBall is not foolproof but that is a longer debate.

 

[Johan]

Your conception of why it's incorrect is based off a strawman. Since we already agree it's fine for openers to be conservative.

The issue is you want to have your cake and eat it too with Hutton on his conservatism.

What cake? I've been straight up selling his conservatism and versaility as a positive throughout this conversation.

 

[Johan]

I mean there were a string of better scorelines before that.

Obviously BazBall is not foolproof but that is a longer debate.

the current team is decent, that doesn't mean they didn't stupidly drop games (Ashes 2023 declaration) and that people didn't underperform by doing stupid **** (Duckett in NZ, Root in India).

 

[subshakerz]

What cake? I've been straight up selling his conservatism and versaility as a positive throughout this conversation.

While also arguing he wasn't really that conservative and really could dominate in a mood.

 

[Johan]

While also arguing he wasn't really that conservative and really could dominate in a mood.

Conservative by choice, and the latter is correct and is fundamentally a part of my versatility point. Though I didn't say "mood", moreso when the match situation required.

 

[subshakerz]

the current team is decent, that doesn't mean they didn't stupidly drop games (Ashes 2023 declaration) and that people didn't underperform by doing stupid **** (Duckett in NZ, Root in India).

Sure

 

[subshakerz]

Conservative by choice, and the latter is correct and is fundamentally a part of my versatility point. Though I didn't say "mood", moreso when the match situation required.

And it doesn't alter my fundamental reservation with his general approach that precludes him from the top tier. Just let it go.

 

[Johan]

And it doesn't alter my fundamental reservation with his general approach that precludes him from the top tier. Just let it go.

You're the one who literally restarted the conversation, What are you asking me to let go lol