Botham vs Jadeja (bowling)

[PlayerComparisons]

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[subshakerz]

Botham.

Jadejas figures are entirely the product of him being in India and playing disproportionately higher games there.

If Jadeja was in Australia or SA he wouldn't even be close to the same bowler.

Whereas Botham would end up with a near sort of record anywhere.

 

[Coronis]

Do a fielding one too

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Jadeja

 

[Rob Wesley]

Botham is better bowler also but it’s close.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Actually feel like this is far closer than the batting comparison. In fact Im starting to think Jadeja is obviously better. He's definitely conditions dependent of course, but he's one of the deadliest bowlers ever on asian pitches. And I just don't rate Botham's bowling that highly at all tbh, it just looks arsey as **** to the eye and is backed up by most people who watched his career admitting that he took a ton of wickets bowling utter filth. I'm not saying he fluked it all but there was an element of jamminess to his bowling that is close to undeniable. His numbers fell off a cliff too and he was close to useless for ages. Jadeja has an immense advantage in terms of consistency over his career for 13 years now, which I value a bit more than cross conditions consistency in this case.

I'm maybe in the minority I guess. For me, I'd rate Botham's bowling below all the other great ARs of the 80s, including Kapil, and below Jadeja as well. The batting comparison is where he really shines, along with his ability to produce game changing performances in both disciplines simultaneously. But his bowling career in isolation is meh.

 

[subshakerz]

Actually feel like this is far closer than the batting comparison. In fact Im starting to think Jadeja is obviously better. He's definitely conditions dependent of course, but he's one of the deadliest bowlers ever on asian pitches. And I just don't rate Botham's bowling that highly at all tbh, it just looks arsey as **** to the eye and is backed up by most people who watched his career admitting that he took a ton of wickets bowling utter filth. I'm not saying he fluked it all but there was an element of jamminess to his bowling that is close to undeniable. His numbers fell off a cliff too and he was close to useless for ages. Jadeja has an immense advantage in terms of consistency over his career for 13 years now, which I value a bit more than cross conditions consistency in this case.

I'm maybe in the minority I guess. For me, I'd rate Botham's bowling below all the other great ARs of the 80s, including Kapil, and below Jadeja as well. The batting comparison is where he really shines, along with his ability to produce game changing performances in both disciplines simultaneously. But his bowling career in isolation is meh.

Would you rate Jadeja ahead of Kapil?

 

[subshakerz]

Actually feel like this is far closer than the batting comparison. In fact Im starting to think Jadeja is obviously better. He's definitely conditions dependent of course, but he's one of the deadliest bowlers ever on asian pitches. And I just don't rate Botham's bowling that highly at all tbh, it just looks arsey as **** to the eye and is backed up by most people who watched his career admitting that he took a ton of wickets bowling utter filth. I'm not saying he fluked it all but there was an element of jamminess to his bowling that is close to undeniable. His numbers fell off a cliff too and he was close to useless for ages. Jadeja has an immense advantage in terms of consistency over his career for 13 years now, which I value a bit more than cross conditions consistency in this case.

I'm maybe in the minority I guess. For me, I'd rate Botham's bowling below all the other great ARs of the 80s, including Kapil, and below Jadeja as well. The batting comparison is where he really shines, along with his ability to produce game changing performances in both disciplines simultaneously. But his bowling career in isolation is meh.

Botham was a bonafide worldclass bowler his first career half.

Then from 82 to 86/87 around Kapil level.

Then trash his last 14 tests.

A far higher ceiling though than Jadeja or Kapil which is why I tend to favor him.

 

[h_hurricane]

Botham had a solitary tour in the last 5 years of his international cricket. A two test series in NZ in the fag end of his career. No other overseas series since ashes 1986-87. His bowling career is protected by not playing much at all for the last one third of his career.

Jadeja on the other hand is taking a full time bowler's burden even when he is not picking up wickets abroad. He is taking a hit in his bowling average these days which Botham would have too if he played more in his sunset years.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Botham had a solitary tour in the last 5 years of his international cricket. A two test series in NZ in the fag end of his career. No other overseas series since ashes 1986-87. His bowling career is protected by not playing much at all for the last one third of his career.

Jadeja on the other hand is taking a full time bowler's burden even when he is not picking up wickets abroad. He is taking a hit in his bowling average these days which Botham would have too if he played more in his sunset years.

both players have a bit of this going on. how many times did jadeja get protected against a 3-150 after being left out for ashwin?

 

[subshakerz]

Botham had a solitary tour in the last 5 years of his international cricket. A two test series in NZ in the fag end of his career. No other overseas series since ashes 1986-87. His bowling career is protected by not playing much at all for the last one third of his career.

Jadeja on the other hand is taking a full time bowler's burden even when he is not picking up wickets abroad. He is taking a hit in his bowling average these days which Botham would have too if he played more in his sunset years.

I'm sorry but by 87 Botham had played a decade and taken over 300 wickets 5000 runs, so I don't buy the argument that less tests in class one third disqualifies him.

 

[h_hurricane]

both players have a bit of this going on. how many times did jadeja get protected against a 3-150 after being left out for ashwin?

Jadeja's bowling average of 20 at home and 36 overseas is fairly reflective of the bowler that he is. If Ashwin didn't exist and Jadeja was consistently picked earlier in his career overseas, I don't think he would have averaged worse than the 36 average that he currently has.(Around B-G series 2020-21, he was averaging 32 overseas until then). His bowling average is declining with every series and he is a worse bowler now than he was several years back. Of course, no one considers him a 25 averaging bowler, but that was never my point.

Botham's average only dropped by 1 run from 1987 to 1992. The reason for only a marginal drop is that he played very less, and almost nothing overseas.

 

[h_hurricane]

Botham.

Jadejas figures are entirely the product of him being in India and playing disproportionately higher games there.

If Jadeja was in Australia or SA he wouldn't even be close to the same bowler.

Whereas Botham would end up with a near sort of record anywhere.

Botham was a better overseas player than Jadeja but you got this one wrong in this comparison. If you had actually looked up, you would find that Botham has a higher percentage of home games than Jadeja by a whisker presently.

 

[subshakerz]

Jadeja's bowling average of 20 at home and 36 overseas is fairly reflective of the bowler that he is. If Ashwin didn't exist and Jadeja was consistently picked earlier in his career overseas, I don't think he would have averaged worse than the 36 average that he currently has.(Around B-G series 2020-21, he was averaging 32 overseas until then). His bowling average is declining with every series and he is a worse bowler now than he was several years back. Of course, no one considers him a 25 averaging bowler, but that was never my point.

Botham's average only dropped by 1 run from 1987 to 1992. The reason for only a marginal drop is that he played very less, and almost nothing overseas.

The fact is that Jadeja wasn't picked consistently so it's hard to tell how he would have done with more series.

 

[subshakerz]

Botham was a better overseas player than Jadeja but you got this one wrong in this comparison. If you had actually looked up, you would find that Botham has a higher percentage of home games than Jadeja by a whisker presently.

Fair enough

 

[Coronis]

Actually feel like this is far closer than the batting comparison. In fact Im starting to think Jadeja is obviously better. He's definitely conditions dependent of course, but he's one of the deadliest bowlers ever on asian pitches. And I just don't rate Botham's bowling that highly at all tbh, it just looks arsey as **** to the eye and is backed up by most people who watched his career admitting that he took a ton of wickets bowling utter filth. I'm not saying he fluked it all but there was an element of jamminess to his bowling that is close to undeniable. His numbers fell off a cliff too and he was close to useless for ages. Jadeja has an immense advantage in terms of consistency over his career for 13 years now, which I value a bit more than cross conditions consistency in this case.

I'm maybe in the minority I guess. For me, I'd rate Botham's bowling below all the other great ARs of the 80s, including Kapil, and below Jadeja as well. The batting comparison is where he really shines, along with his ability to produce game changing performances in both disciplines simultaneously. But his bowling career in isolation is meh.

Perhaps we should look more closely at the batting records of guys like Border (12 dismissals), Gavaskar (8) and Richards (7) if they were getting out consistently to utter filth.