Better Batsman : Jadeja vs Imran

[subshakerz]

Of the celebrated ARs from the 1970s/80s, Imran is the one whose batting numbers flatter his actual abilities. An extremely limited batter. Kapil and Botham were FAR more capable with higher gears against better attacks.

Jadeja obviously better than Imran.

No, Kapil doesn't have the overall consistency and output to match with Imran. Botham had high impact inning and actual middle order bat output, Kapil only had the former.

And no, Jadeja isn't obviously better than Imran. They have pretty much the same numbers.

 

[ankitj]

We are back to dealing with the cognitive dissonance of Imran's batting numbers. It's a case of putting eye test over actual performance. Lesser batsmen go through patches when they outperform much more capable batsmen. That's what Imran did with his determined batting in last half of his career.

 

[subshakerz]

Imran to me was slightly more capable of clutch knocks against quality pace attacks than Jadeja and that to me is the real difference between them.

 

[ankitj]

Highest batsman ranking for Imran Khan: 12th
Jadeja: 29th

Make what you can of it.

 

[subshakerz]

Highest batsman ranking for Imran Khan: 12th
Jadeja: 29th

Make what you can of it.

If Jadeja couldn't bowl, would he be selected in the side in your opinion? I think he might after this series. Not sure before that.

 

[Prince EWS]

If Jadeja couldn't bowl, would he be selected in the side in your opinion? I think he might after this series. Not sure before that.

I think he would have been picked ahead of Nair even before this series started, but yeah probably not all the time before Kohli retired. Would have been close for quite a while though - making squads as a reserve batsman etc.

 

[Al Salvador]

No, Kapil doesn't have the overall consistency and output to match with Imran. Botham had high impact inning and actual middle order bat output, Kapil only had the former.

And no, Jadeja isn't obviously better than Imran. They have pretty much the same numbers.

They have similar overall record, Imran has more longevity. Surely it should be Imran right, what I'm missing

 

[subshakerz]

They have similar overall record, Imran has more longevity. Surely it should be Imran right, what I'm missing

Kapil or Jadeja?

 

[Randomfan]

Of the celebrated ARs from the 1970s/80s, Imran is the one whose batting numbers flatter his actual abilities. An extremely limited batter. Kapil and Botham were FAR more capable with higher gears against better attacks.

Jadeja obviously better than Imran.

Kapil crossed 50 ever 5.2 innings
IK crossed 50 ever 5.2 innings
Jadeja crosses 50 every 3.8 innings.

I don't see how Kapil was better than IK. Limited bat or not, IK was able to cross 50 at same frequency as Dev. Dev does not have an advanatge in RPI as well or in avg.

Yes Jadeja obviously has a better output than both. That I can agree.

It's a huge luxury for any team to have lower order batsman crossing 50 in every 3-4 innings. More frequently 50+ scores, better contribution with bat for any lower order.

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil crossed 50 ever 5.2 innings
IK crossed 50 ever 5.2 innings
Jadeja crosses 50 every 3.8 innings.

I don't see how Kapil was better than IK. Limited bat or not, IK was able to cross 50 at same frequency as Dev. Dev does not have an advanatge in RPI as well or in avg.

Yes Jadeja obviously has a better output than both. That I can agree.

It's a huge luxury for any team to have lower order batsman crossing 50 in every 3-4 innings. More frequently 50+ scores, better contribution with bat for any lower order.

Sorry but crossing 50 isn't to me the mark of a better bat if your RPI is the same. Doesn't make sense.

Tons yes because those innings have disproportionately bigger impact and show a capacity for lasting the distance.

 

[ataraxia]

Tons yes because those innings have disproportionately bigger impact and show a capacity for lasting the distance.

A persisting myth, but tons have disproportionately smaller impact than fifties because they're more likely to be scored in dead games.

In other words, 50 & 50 = 100 & 0. It's not complicated: reaching three figures doesn't make an innings three times as impactful.

 

[Al Salvador]

Kapil or Jadeja?

Jadeja

 

[subshakerz]

A persisting myth, but tons have disproportionately smaller impact than fifties because they're more likely to be scored in dead games.

In other words, 50 & 50 = 100 & 0. It's not complicated: reaching three figures doesn't make an innings three times as impactful.

We can debate that since it really depends on the team you are in but it still shows an ability to stick at the crease which is the mark of a better bat.

 

[ataraxia]

We can debate that since it really depends on the team you are in but it still shows an ability to stick at the crease which is the mark of a better bat.

Nah it's not really debatable. If you're in a really bad team then maybe, since fifties are more likely (relatively) to occur than centuries where you've basically lost already, but neither Imran nor Jadeja were in bad teams.

 

[honestbharani]

Jadeja, as always the answer.

 

[subshakerz]

Nah it's not really debatable. If you're in a really bad team then maybe, since fifties are more likely (relatively) to occur than centuries where you've basically lost already, but neither Imran nor Jadeja were in bad teams.

So in a good team with a good batting lineup, 50s have more impact than tons? Seems counterintuitive but whatever

You didn't address the other point about proving an ability to stay in the crease.

 

[ataraxia]

So in a good team with a good batting lineup, 50s have more impact than tons? Seems counterintuitive but whatever

That's an all-timer of a straw man. What I'm saying is that the first 50 runs are as important, if not marginally more, than the second 50 runs.

You didn't address the other point about proving an ability to stay in the crease.

This is already reflected by batting average (and SR, I guess) – it does not need to be double-counted. If you're better at staying in, your batting average is higher.

 

[subshakerz]

That's an all-timer of a straw man. What I'm saying is that the first 50 runs are as important, if not marginally more, than the second 50 runs.

No it's not, you just said tons have disproportionately less impact than 50s.

This is already reflected by batting average (and SR, I guess) – it does not need to be double-counted. If you're better at staying in, your batting average is higher.

Batting average can be affected by a relatively higher number of NOs. Both Imran and Jadeja have a 7 point different between average and RPI.

Scoring tons is a separate test that a batsman can stick around for long haul. If you want to argue by batting average than 50s also wouldn't matter more by that standard.

 

[Coronis]

A persisting myth, but tons have disproportionately smaller impact than fifties because they're more likely to be scored in dead games.

In other words, 50 & 50 = 100 & 0. It's not complicated: reaching three figures doesn't make an innings three times as impactful.

I would argue reaching three figures is definitely 3 times as impactful as single figures