Battle of the Batting Orders

[subshakerz]

Sorry it's simply isn't Close on quality. That SA batting line-up got some ridiculously flat tracks in Australia, India and England, which you are forgetting somehow. Not saying it was all flat or India did not had its fair share of roads, but the Indians individually have scored tough runs way more often, like all 4 of them than them all 4.

SA had greentops at home so they objectively played more sporting wickets than India. And perhaps you are forgetting all the flat tracks India played throughout the 2000s away.

Again you can think India is better. To say not close is just downplaying SAs allround consistency.

He wasn't actually. Averages 34 at Home without minnows, that too inflated by weak teams; 25 vs Australia. In SA, they were equal. The only place this SA team has any advantage is in places like England/New Zealand, but Dravid and Sachin are ballistic there so nothing significant Even.

Lol Sehwag averages 25 at SA he is still a fair distance from Smith.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Dravid's limitations v HTD and Sehwag&Laxman's significant weaknesses v swing&seam hand the advantage to South Africa as their quartet possessed no significant weaknesses and were ruthless in their own right.

Disagree honestly. Kallis/ABD/Amla/Smith may not have an outright weakness, but they have their own limitations. For example: Smith is significantly poorer to seam than Dravid to HTD. They just not in the same league as individuals to compare for me.

 

[capt_Luffy]

SA had greentops at home so they objectively played more sporting wickets than India. And perhaps you are forgetting all the flat tracks India played throughout the 2000s away.

Again you can think India is better. To say not close is just downplaying SAs allround consistency.


Lol Sehwag averages 25 at SA he is still a fair distance from Smith.

SA probably saw the least Green tops between the period they played on.

As I said, the players aren't on similar tiers to be comparable. You have to say something outright wackshit like ABD is better than Dravid or Smith is a tier above Sehwag for them to be close; and if you do so I think I will leave it to Rest.

Nope he isn't. Smith averages sub 30 much more consistently against decent line-ups in SA.

 

[Johan]

Ponting > everyone in either India or South Africa lineup

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ponting > everyone in either India or South Africa lineup

Yeah if someone argued something like this ABD/Amla to Dravid, I will agree.

 

[Johan]

Yeah if someone argued something like this ABD/Amla to Dravid, I will agree.

finally coming to terms with the fact ABD is Amla/Kanhai/Crowe level rather than Weekes level?

 

[subshakerz]

Dravid's limitations v HTD and Sehwag&Laxman's significant weaknesses v swing&seam hand the advantage to South Africa as their quartet possessed no significant weaknesses and were ruthless in their own right.

I recall India collapsing far more in the 2000s than SA between 2007 to 2014.

 

[subshakerz]

Ponting > everyone in either India or South Africa lineup

Lol not Tendulkar.

 

[BazBall21]

Disagree honestly. Kallis/ABD/Amla/Smith may not have an outright weakness, but they have their own limitations. For example: Smith is significantly poorer to seam than Dravid to HTD. They just not in the same league as individuals to compare for me.

You've got two monster batting quartets (even the staunchest critic of all four individuals in one of the lineups would have to concede that), so ironing out the weaker details is more effective imo than maximising the stronger details because the upside is always going to be substantial.

 

[Johan]

Lol not Tendulkar.

Ponting>2000s Tendulkar

 

[subshakerz]

SA probably saw the least Green tops between the period they played on.

As I said, the players aren't on similar tiers to be comparable. You have to say something outright wackshit like ABD is better than Dravid or Smith is a tier above Sehwag for them to be close; and if you do so I think I will leave it to Rest.

Nope he isn't. Smith averages sub 30 much more consistently against decent line-ups in SA.

SA still had the most lively pitches in the era and played on them more.

The only one on his own tier is Tendulkar but I care how the lineup did collectively and SA gelled much better and were less fragile. Indian lineups often had one bat outscoring the rest.

And really you are going to argue Sehwag is as solid against the new ball in SA as Smith? Don't think you believe that.

 

[subshakerz]

Ponting>2000s Tendulkar

Agreed.

 

[Bolo.]

What is HTD?

 

[BazBall21]

What is HTD?

Hit the deck.

 

[capt_Luffy]

SA still had the most lively pitches in the era and played on them more.

The only one on his own tier is Tendulkar but I care how the lineup did collectively and SA gelled much better and we're less fragile. Indian lineups often had one bat outscoring the rest.

And really you are going to argue Sehwag is as solid against the new ball in SA as Smith? Don't think you believe that.

Nope, I am arguing Smith absolutely sucked balls at Home and isn't better than Sehwag there.

You've got two monster batting quartets (even the staunchest critic of all four individuals in one of the lineups would have to concede that), so ironing out the weaker details is more effective imo than maximising the stronger details because the upside is always going to be substantial.

I think I will just say that I think SAs are of inferior quality as batsmen overall here. They have more "well rounded" records, but the Indians makes up for each other's weaknesses and overall, I think just are qualitatively better. SA being more rounded I think is slightly a factor of them playing in some pretty flat tracks in those conditions and some pretty hapless attacks as well. Not saying Indians only played elites only on mambas, but I think you are getting my thoughts. You lot can disagree ofcourse, but it's not close for me. I have said what I had to, and will let it rest now.

 

[subshakerz]

Tier is probably exaggerating it tbh, Waugh's average advantage is largely the resultant of minnow bashing.

It's not really that Waugh was worse than he seemed but Lloyd was better than his average.

 

[subshakerz]

Nope, I am arguing Smith absolutely sucked balls at Home and isn't better than Sehwag there.

I think I will just say that I think SAs are of inferior quality as batsmen overall here. They have more "well rounded" records, but the Indians makes up for each other's weaknesses and overall, I think just are qualitatively better. SA being more rounded I think is slightly a factor of them playing in some pretty flat tracks in those conditions and some pretty hapless attacks as well. Not saying Indians only played elites only on mambas, but I think you are getting my thoughts. You lot can disagree ofcourse, but it's not close for me. I have said what I had to, and will let it rest now.

Yeah but sometimes a lineup is more than the sum of its parts, and whether you think individually India are qualitatively better, it's just that SA delivered and gelled together as a lineup more.

 

[BazBall21]

It's not really that Waugh was worse than he seemed but Lloyd was better than his average.

Totally agree

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah but sometimes a lineup is more than the sum of its parts, and whether you think individually India are qualitatively better, it's just that SA delivered and gelled together as a lineup more.

Yeah but that had several other factors to it. Bowling being a Huge One. Also think they have a Collectively Much higher Ceiling and won more matches just off of Batting.

 

[BazBall21]

Smith wasn't great at home and Elgar&Gary Kirsten's home records reflect that it wasn't some impossible task to do better but he was still easily an above average opener in South Africa. Sehwag wasn't.