Barry Richards vs Ricky Ponting

[DrWolverine]

Barry Richards vs Ricky Ponting

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ponting finally wins a comparison, and easily at that.

 

[kyear2]

There are people who argue that Barry was the greatest batsman they've ever seen.

Punter was at best arguably 3rd during his own era.

 

[DrWolverine]

Ponting finally wins a comparison, and easily at that.

After losing to George Headley & Graeme Pollock, he has finally won a poll at last.

 

[Prince EWS]

There are people who argue that Barry was the greatest batsman they've ever seen.

Those people are wrong though.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Those people are wrong though.

It could be though that the only Tests player they saw bat was Barry?

 

[kyear2]

It could be though that the only Tests player they saw bat was Barry?

Gooch and Procter called him the best batsman. Bradman, Snow, Thompson, Pollock, Lillee and others called him the best opener they ever saw. Crowe called him the best post war opener and Gower ranks him above Sunny.

And all of this you know.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Gooch and Procter called him the best batsman. Bradman, Snow, Thompson, Pollock, Lillee and others called him the best opener they ever saw. Crowe called him the best post war opener and Gower ranks him above Sunny.

And all of this you know.

You know that Lillee rated Gower over him, right?? Was a not a hot take. Also Bradman had Morris there over Hutton, Gavaskar and Hobbs (whom he called the most perfect batsman he ever saw). And given the team composition and that it was published after his death by someone who claims the team was left to them, you should know it is common knowledge that it's widely believed Don never choose that team. Crowe, again, switched to Sunny actually. Gooch called Qadir the best Spinner ever, better than Warne, and also said Viv was incomparable in the very vid he called Barry his favourite. Procter and Pollock were Saffas..... Can see your fallacies?

They could be roughly covered in 3 points, I will cover them in relation to Gavaskar here:
A) Some of those quotes are incomplete/straight up wrong. Lillee for instance rated him 4th joint best, behind not only Richards and Sobers, but also Gower. Don's XI is very very likely not made by himself. Crowe literally changed his view to the other end. Gooch also called Viv incomparable and Barry his favourite, not the best Ever.
B) You use Saffa players, mind you in isolation Era, rating him always in his favour, but always gloss over when SC and Carribbean's rated Gavaskar.
C) You use every single person rating him in his favour. Be it Gooch or Thomson or Snow. But you certainly NEVER, I mean Never award these peer ratings to other players. Have straight up said Compton's ratings is nostalgic romanticism, while he infact was rated higher. I have problem with that.

All of these, you should know.

 

[kyear2]

You know that Lillee rated Gower over him, right?? Was a not a hot take. Also Bradman had Morris there over Hutton, Gavaskar and Hobbs (whom he called the most perfect batsman he ever saw). And given the team composition and that it was published after his death by someone who claims the team was left to them, you should know it is common knowledge that it's widely believed Don never choose that team. Crowe, again, switched to Sunny actually. Gooch called Qadir the best Spinner ever, better than Warne, and also said Viv was incomparable in the very vid he called Barry his favourite. Procter and Pollock were Saffas..... Can see your fallacies?

They could be roughly covered in 3 points, I will cover them in relation to Gavaskar here:
A) Some of those quotes are incomplete/straight up wrong. Lillee for instance rated him 4th joint best, behind not only Richards and Sobers, but also Gower. Don's XI is very very likely not made by himself. Crowe literally changed his view to the other end. Gooch also called Viv incomparable and Barry his favourite, not the best Ever.
B) You use Saffa players, mind you in isolation Era, rating him always in his favour, but always gloss over when SC and Carribbean's rated Gavaskar.
C) You use every single person rating him in his favour. Be it Gooch or Thomson or Snow. But you certainly NEVER, I mean Never award these peer ratings to other players. Have straight up said Compton's ratings is nostalgic romanticism, while he infact was rated higher. I have problem with that.

All of these, you should know.

First off, he had Morris there because as he maintained, he wanted a right and left hander at the top of the order. The right handers he chose was Barry.

Yes, some believe the team wasn't his, Mark Nicholas however also has said in multiple interviews that Bradman told him that he did believe Barry was better than both Hutton and Hobbs.

Yes, Crowe did switch to Sunny, decades after they retired, make of that what you will.

Viv was incomparable and the very fact that they were mentioned in the same light speaks volumes.

So basically you're saying that Pollock and Procter opinions can't be trusted because they were from the same country? Pollock rated Barry alongside Sobers, that's somewhat an arbitrary take you from, does that only apply for South Africa's or should that be the standard for judgements from every country?

Gower, Thimpson and Snow also had him as the best opener from the era, think Willis as well. Does that count since they aren't from South Africa?

Where have I neglected peer ratings from other players? And as I have said numerous times previous, it's when peer rating matches the performances where it's validated. Barry had unparalleled performances vs the very best pacers of his era, superb performances vs touring test squads and epic performances in WSC. All that was added to his exceptional peer ratings. This is a cricketer, who despite not playing a test match since 1970 was seen as the best batsman in the world until 1975.

Every single forum member here who has seen him bat, rates him very much in the same tier as his namesake, Tendulkar and Lara as the standouts of the post war era, and a genius with the barn

He is a cricketer generally seen as in the upper tier of openers and at worst a top 4 opening batsman of all time.

 

[capt_Luffy]

First off, he had Morris there because as he maintained, he wanted a right and left hander at the top of the order. The right handers he chose was Barry.

Yes, some believe the team wasn't his, Mark Nicholas however also has said in multiple interviews that Bradman told him that he did believe Barry was better than both Hutton and Hobbs.

Yes, Crowe did switch to Sunny, decades after they retired, make of that what you will.

Viv was incomparable and the very fact that they were mentioned in the same light speaks volumes.

So basically you're saying that Pollock and Procter opinions can't be trusted because they were from the same country? Pollock rated Barry alongside Sobers, that's somewhat an arbitrary take you from, does that only apply for South Africa's or should that be the standard for judgements from every country?

Gower, Thimpson and Snow also had him as the best opener from the era, think Willis as well. Does that count since they aren't from South Africa?

Where have I neglected peer ratings from other players? And as I have said numerous times previous, it's when peer rating matches the performances where it's validated. Barry had unparalleled performances vs the very best pacers of his era, superb performances vs touring test squads and epic performances in WSC. All that was added to his exceptional peer ratings. This is a cricketer, who despite not playing a test match since 1970 was seen as the best batsman in the world until 1975.

Every single forum member here who has seen him bat, rates him very much in the same tier as his namesake, Tendulkar and Lara as the standouts of the post war era, and a genius with the barn

He is a cricketer generally seen as in the upper tier of openers and at worst a top 4 opening batsman of all time.

Mark Nicholas is a known huge Barry fan, and that makes sense as his Teenage years/early adult years would perfectly coincide with Barry's peak. The only thing we have is Bradman saying Hobbs was the most perfect Batsman he ever saw.

Gooch said Barry was "the most gracious and my favourite Batsman ever" while also saying Viv was "The Incomparable Vivan Richards" and "Simply the best of his era" meaning Gooch, as of recently, rates Viv higher.

Okay, so Crowe changed his mind, so either he was fickle which means I don't have to take his opinion very seriously or he revised his take.

No, it's certainly not that Pollock's and Procter's opinions don't count. But if they do, I have to count those of SC and Carribbean as well where applicable.

There are people who rated Pollock higher than Barry too, Ian Chappell and Geoffrey Boycott chief amongst them. There are a whole lot of people who rated Sunny higher.

That's funny you bring up Gower, Because Gower himself rated Botham higher than Barry as a Cricketer, a stance you'd reject. Anyway, glad to see we moved past Crowe and Gooch.

Now, Yes, you've handwaved peer reputation in the name of biases plenty of times. As you said once "Peer resting is ****, as we've discussed with Barrington vs May / Compton etc. it's who was media favorites or popular with the other players. Peer ratings have Lillee and Wasim as one and two all time as bowlers."

He has plenty of downsides to his FC career too, being outperformed by Boycott who you don't rate in English FC, no FC performances in outside the England/Australia/South Africa nucleaus and a lack of performance over the long run, he had a 9 year good FC career, his actual career length would probably be Barrington length. And on Test equivalent matches, as you like to call them, he averages barely 40 once you include the Rebel tours.

His FC performances are great and he has a great reputation, so we can safely put him on the level of those who enjoyed great FC careers and reputations, lile Harold Larwood, Edgar McDonald and Bob Appleyard. Rest assured I won't be picking a McDonald over an Anderson, let alone a Ricky Ponting bowling equivalent. Next up we'd be arguing Larwood vs Trueman at this rate.

 

[Coronis]

Viv was incomparable

Why do you and others always mention him in comparisons then?

 

[sayon basak]

Mark Nicholas is a known huge Barry fan, and that makes sense as his Teenage years/early adult years would perfectly coincide with Barry's peak. The only thing we have is Bradman saying Hobbs was the most perfect Batsman he ever saw.

Gooch said Barry was "the most gracious and my favourite Batsman ever" while also saying Viv was "The Incomparable Vivan Richards" and "Simply the best of his era" meaning Gooch, as of recently, rates Viv higher.

Okay, so Crowe changed his mind, so either he was fickle which means I don't have to take his opinion very seriously or he revised his take.

No, it's certainly not that Pollock's and Procter's opinions don't count. But if they do, I have to count those of SC and Carribbean as well where applicable.

There are people who rated Pollock higher than Barry too, Ian Chappell and Geoffrey Boycott chief amongst them. There are a whole lot of people who rated Sunny higher.

That's funny you bring up Gower, Because Gower himself rated Botham higher than Barry as a Cricketer, a stance you'd reject. Anyway, glad to see we moved past Crowe and Gooch.

Now, Yes, you've handwaved peer reputation in the name of biases plenty of times. As you said once "Peer resting is ****, as we've discussed with Barrington vs May / Compton etc. it's who was media favorites or popular with the other players. Peer ratings have Lillee and Wasim as one and two all time as bowlers."

He has plenty of downsides to his FC career too, being outperformed by Boycott who you don't rate in English FC, no FC performances in outside the England/Australia/South Africa nucleaus and a lack of performance over the long run, he had a 9 year good FC career, his actual career length would probably be Barrington length. And on Test equivalent matches, as you like to call them, he averages barely 40 once you include the Rebel tours.

His FC performances are great and he has a great reputation, so we can safely put him on the level of those who enjoyed great FC careers and reputations, lile Harold Larwood, Edgar McDonald and Bob Appleyard. Rest assured I won't be picking a McDonald over an Anderson, let alone a Ricky Ponting bowling equivalent. Next up we'd be arguing Larwood vs Trueman at this rate.

Wow, you can do this?