Barry Richards and Dennis Lillee vs Sunil Gavaskar and Fred Trueman

[Johan]

Substitute Amiss with Root.

averages 40 odd against Australia, Your lad Kallis is at 41 (38 against McWarne), Sangakkara is at 43 (25 against Warne), Dravid is at an amazing 38 against Australia (35 against great attacks) and so forth.

 

[sayon basak]

I apologise if you're not actually a checklister, as that's a terrible thing to accuse someone of. But there's a lot of "averages X in Y" **** and also this

Johan is not a checklister. I have been there, I know.

 

[Johan]

Here is Sobers roasting India for literally no reason.

 

[DrWolverine]

Bishan Singh Bedi was 100% justified in the declaration. It was a principled stand against what he saw as unsportsmanlike behavior. Bedi refused to let his team continue under those violent conditions, showing that player safety and dignity were more important than the outcome of the match.


Clive Lloyd, the West Indian captain, had tasted defeat in the previous year’s series against Australia, where Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson’s ferocious pace attack had decimated his side.


India, successfully chased a record 403 runs in the third Test at Port of Spain historic chase and this deeply hurt and frustrated Clive Lloyd.
He dropped his team’s spinners and went with a four-man pace attack for the Kingston Test. His strategy was not just to win—it was to dominate and intimidate, and he intended to use sheer pace and Bodyline tactics to achieve it.


Anshuman Gaekwad : Head injury. Retired hurt.
Gundappa Vishwanath : Finger injury. Retired hurt.
Brijesh Patel : Multiple hits on the ribs
Mohinder Amarnath : Played despite getting multiple hits on the arms and chest.

 

[DrWolverine]

India’s declaration was the right decision. It wasn’t about escaping a loss, but about defending values that define cricket: respect, safety, and integrity.

 

[DrWolverine]

The same Lloyd who adopted Bodyline tactics to injure Indian batsmen because he was scared to lose the series after India chased a record 404 against his team.

 

[Johan]

short pitched pace is a very well used tactic, In the very first test match in 1877, George Ulyett used a bouncer barrage to smash through Charles Bannerman who made 165*, it's a very ruthless one but a very, very old and accepted one.

 

[DrWolverine]

If you are bowling 3 bouncers an over to batsmen with no protective equipment specifically to injure them, it is wrong even if no rules were broken.

 

[Johan]

all the big pacers do this sadly, Wasim Akram did the same to Viv Richards and tried spamming bouncers, went badly but the precedent is always their.

 

[DrWolverine]

It still doesn’t make it right

 

[Johan]

Fred Trueman on bouncers.

 

[capt_Luffy]

short pitched pace is a very well used tactic, In the very first test match in 1877, George Ulyett used a bouncer barrage to smash through Charles Bannerman who made 165*, it's a very ruthless one but a very, very old and accepted one.

It was always there. But I think there was a subtle line. I hope Holding and Roberts bowled bouncers before Kingston as well. Still India chased 403 just the match before. It very much was the intent. The difference in the bowling was between taking the batsman's wicket by intimidating them vs genuinely trying to injure them. Like Holding legit bowled a few out right beamers. Bowling bouncers to intimidate the batsman and forcing them to give their wicket by either playing a bad shot or not being prepared for the fuller ball etc is a very valid tactic. The latter, imo isn't. Especially in an era before helmets.

 

[sayon basak]

It was always there. But I think there was a subtle line. I hope Holding and Roberts bowled bouncers before Kingston as well. Still India chased 403 just the match before. It very much was the intent. The difference in the bowling was between taking the batsman's wicket by intimidating them vs genuinely trying to injure them. Like Holding legit bowled a few out right beamers. Bowling bouncers to intimidate the batsman and forcing them to give their wicket by either playing a bad shot or not being prepared for the fuller ball etc is a very valid tactic. The latter, imo isn't. Especially in an era before helmets.

Which is fine imo.

 

[DrWolverine]

Which is fine imo.

Bodyline test series is also fine then?

 

[sayon basak]

Bodyline test series is also fine then?

It definitely was.

#larwooddidnothingwrong

 

[Xix2565]

So we want more Phil Hughes I guess?

 

[Johan]

Meh. Australia and West Indies used to do the same with each other, and England at the time, the 1974-75 Ashes got so bad that two of our bats were injured and we had to summon an overweight 43-year-old Michael Colin Cowdrey who retired three years ago just to survive Lillian Thomson, needless to say they bounced and hurt him too, it's whatever, that's just how they play. Fred Trueman also caused an entire riot by breaking the hand of a 40+ George Headley.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Meh. Australia and West Indies used to do the same with each other, and England at the time, the 1974-75 Ashes got so bad that two of our bats were injured and we had to summon an overweight 43-year-old Michael Colin Cowdrey who retired three years ago just to survive Lillian Thomson, needless to say they bounced and hurt him too, it's whatever, that's just how they play. Fred Trueman also caused an entire riot by breaking the hand of a 40+ George Headley.

As I said, I don't think the Caribbean's bowled full length deliveries the whole Series upto that point. I am all for bowling short stuff and bouncers, but beamers is where I draw the line. It's good to intimidate the batter, it's not to try to make him retire hurt.

 

[Johan]

Bodyline test series is also fine then?

Yes, The Australians can beg for apology all they want, Douglas Jardine never apologized, Harold Larwood never apologized and it's not like Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson ever apologized to England after 1974-75, it's also not like Michael Holding apologized to Geoffrey Boycott.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes, The Australians can beg for apology all they want, Douglas Jardine never apologized, Harold Larwood never apologized and it's not like Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thomson ever apologized to England after 1974-75, it's also not like Michael Holding apologized to Geoffrey Boycott.

Tbf Larwood was dropped and never picked again as a punishment (which was pure bullshit, especially since Jardine faced 0 repercussions).