Aubrey Faulkner vs Shaun Pollock (Tests)

[Johan]

except none of this is true.

all of it is true brother, Cricket has become professional in the last 10 years.

 

[Johan]

you lot may like your cricket when it was only played amongst a small group of imperial white teams, but it’s rightly seen as a lesser product

Yeah, Learie Constantine, George Headley, Frank Worrell and Everton Weekes were such white imperialists.

also, in 2025 Aubrey Faulkner made it to number 7 best all rounder list on CW, Pollock was at number 8, Ashwin at 19, so regarding lesser product, just speak for yourself

 

[Coronis]

Just because India and Pakistan didn’t play cricket, it’s not the same for Australia. There were just as many great cricketers that represented Australia pre-1970s compared to so called modern era when India, Pakistan etc. started to be any relevant.

The 70s Aus would get crushed by 48 Invincibles and probably would lose to Australia 1921.

Pre India and Pak XI (debut) vs India/Pak combined XI

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman*
Hammond
Headley
Faulkner
Oldfield+
Larwood
Grimmett
O’Reilly
Barnes

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Younis
Pant+
Imran*
Jadeja
Ashwin
Wasim
Waqar

 

[Johan]

the first XI stomps so bad, Bradman TOAA.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Pollock.. Greatest South African all rounder after Kallis

 

[Johan]

Pre India and Pak XI (debut) vs India/Pak combined XI

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman*
Hammond
Headley
Faulkner
Oldfield+
Larwood
Grimmett
O’Reilly
Barnes

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Younis
Pant+
Imran*
Jadeja
Ashwin
Wasim
Waqar

Awesome.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Pre India and Pak XI (debut) vs India/Pak combined XI

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman*
Hammond
Headley
Faulkner
Oldfield+
Larwood
Grimmett
O’Reilly
Barnes

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Younis
Pant+
Imran*
Jadeja
Ashwin
Wasim
Waqar

You don't rate Ames?? Also don't think I want 3 leggies in my XI with just a single pacer. Spofforth for Grum.

 

[Coronis]

You don't rate Ames?? Also don't think I want 3 leggies in my XI with just a single pacer. Spofforth for Grum.

I thought Ames debuted slightly later. You don’t have a single pacer, you have Barnes and Larwood.

 

[ma1978]

Pre India and Pak XI (debut) vs India/Pak combined XI

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman*
Hammond
Headley
Faulkner
Oldfield+
Larwood
Grimmett
O’Reilly
Barnes

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Younis
Pant+
Imran*
Jadeja
Ashwin
Wasim
Waqar

lol@ the only reason the oldies get anywhere is because of Bradman and maybe Hobbs.

Bert Oldfield, one pace bowler, lol proves my point totally

I get it why the English love their pre war cricketers given the stinking mess of mediocrity that is is modern English cricket but it’s just plan weird for Aussies

 

[Johan]

lol@ the only reason the oldies get anywhere is because of Bradman and maybe Hobbs.

Bert Oldfield, one pace bowler, lol proves my point totally

I get it why the English love their pre war cricketers given the stinking mess of mediocrity that is is modern English cricket but it’s just plan weird for Aussies

There are two pacers there.

All three of the Australians, English and the South Africans respect actual Cricket history, so do the ones from Windies and the educated ones from India and Pakistan, it's just about being educated and free minded, naturally people from those countries in 2025 would be more receptive of history, while the less educated individuals would obviously be race obsessed naturally.

 

[ma1978]

There are two pacers there.

All three of the Australians, English and the South Africans respect actual Cricket history, so do the ones from Windies and the educated ones from India and Pakistan, it's just about being educated and free minded, naturally people from more educated countries in 2025 would be more receptive of history, while the less educated individuals would obviously be race obsessed naturally.

I love the history of cricket, but I treat as that - history - Aubrey Faulkner is about as relevant to the sport as it’s played today as Alfred Mynn. Cricket became professional in the 1970s. It wasn’t because of India / Pakistan, it was because there was enough money in the game to allow amateurs to play professionally, standards went though the roof. Kerry Packer played a huge role: So yes, for me, pre 1970s as a player comparison, someone has to really stand out to be compared to post 1970s and I think pre Bradman, it was just a different sport. That doesn’t mean I don’t find the history of cricket fascinating.

 

[Johan]

I love the history of cricket, but I treat as that - history - Aubrey Faulkner is about as relevant to the sport as it’s played today as Alfred Mynn. Cricket became professional in the 1970s. It wasn’t because of India / Pakistan, it was because there was enough money in the game to allow amateurs to play professionally, standards went though the roof. Kerry Packer played a huge role: So yes, for me, pre 1970s as a player comparison, someone has to really stand out to be compared to post 1970s and I think pre Bradman, it was just a different sport. That doesn’t mean I don’t find the history of cricket fascinating.

Doctor Grace made million of pounds in modern terms. But sure, let's play by your logic.

Yet the 80s titans of Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Andy Roberts could not even dominate a 40 year old Geoffrey Boycott in conditions that were tailor made for their bowling, the same Geoffrey who played years under the less "professional" era. Actually, Yeah let's play this game, Cricket was not a professional sport until the 2000s, and before the World Test Championship, Test Cricket was an irrelevant exhibition of the sport and nothing more, anything before the WTC is therefore irrelevant, making Joe Root the greatest Batsman of all time.

 

[Coronis]

Doctor Grace made million of pounds in modern terms. But sure, let's play by your logic.

Yet the 80s titans of Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Andy Roberts could not even dominate a 40 year old Geoffrey Boycott in conditions that were tailor made for their bowling, the same Geoffrey who played years under the less "professional" era. Actually, Yeah let's play this game, Cricket was not a professional sport until the 2000s, and before the World Test Championship, Test Cricket was an irrelevant exhibition of the sport and nothing more, anything before the WTC is therefore irrelevant, making Joe Root the greatest Batsman of all time.

Can you be the best ODI batsman if you don’t win a WC? Or even make a final? Same should apply to WTC

 

[Johan]

Can you be the best ODI batsman if you don’t win a WC? Or even make a final? Same should apply to WTC

You can be. Ask AB De Villiers or Virat Kohli.

 

[Coronis]

You can be. Ask AB De Villiers or Virat Kohli.

Pretty sure Kohli made a final at least. Again not an ODI guy but I thought general consensus would have Viv or Tendulkar above Kohli. Could be wrong ofc

 

[Johan]

Pretty sure Kohli made a final at least. Again not an ODI guy but I thought general consensus would have Viv or Tendulkar above Kohli. Could be wrong ofc

see...

they played a less professional and advanced version of ODIs

 

[ma1978]

Doctor Grace made million of pounds in modern terms. But sure, let's play by your logic.

Yet the 80s titans of Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Andy Roberts could not even dominate a 40 year old Geoffrey Boycott in conditions that were tailor made for their bowling, the same Geoffrey who played years under the less "professional" era. Actually, Yeah let's play this game, Cricket was not a professional sport until the 2000s, and before the World Test Championship, Test Cricket was an irrelevant exhibition of the sport and nothing more, anything before the WTC is therefore irrelevant, making Joe Root the greatest Batsman of all time.

they dominated boycott, he was mediocre at best. Is that the best you got

and clearly you don’t know how to define professional

 

[Johan]

they dominated boycott, he was mediocre at best. Is that the best you got

and clearly you don’t know how to define professional

averaged 41 against the mighty Windies while opening, way more than middle order Gower, more than middle order Border, way more than middle order Javed Miandad, the same as Gavaskar.

Professional cricketers have existed since the 19th century, I'm pretty sure it's you who doesn't know how to define professional Cricket.

 

[peterhrt]

Professional cricketers have existed since the 19th century

There was plenty of money in the game in the 18th century. Vast sums were gambled by wealthy aristocrats and certain players were handsomely rewarded. The laws of cricket included guidance on betting.

 

[Xix2565]

There was plenty of money in the game in the 18th century. Vast sums were gambled by wealthy aristocrats and certain players were handsomely rewarded. The laws of cricket included guidance on betting.

That doesn't change ma1978's point though. Some players might have gotten a lot of money, but not everyone did and players often had other jobs outside of cricket. Teams also didn't have the sort of training routines that modern players currently do, even accounting for lack of modern equipment, general pay and time to invest. It really starts from the great Windies side and other teams like Australia taking from them and other Australian sports to improve their standards.