ATGs in weak teams vs ATGs in strong teams

[JBMAC]

If the goats played in a different era.
1. Don Bradman (1928-1948 Av: 99.94).
If he played 1989-2009 CB predicted average: 107.49
Bradman would have faced Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Given he averaged 201.50 against South Africa, he would have done the same against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.
Also instead of the bumpers from Gubby Allen and Harry Larwood, he would have plundered the bowling of Foster, McCaugue, Richard Dawson and Phil Tufnell.
He would have struggled against Ambrose, Akram and Walsh but would have feasted on Danny Morrison and Willie Watson's gentle medium bananas and kiwi fruit gift packs.
Bradman would have dominated England, Zimbabwe, India, Pakistan, New Zealand and Bangladesh. He may have struggled against the West Indies and South Africa.
Bradman would have averaged 107 based on Steve Waugh averaging 56.05 in the final 10 years of his career between 1994 and 2004.


Can not find ATG thread so put it in here sorry

 

[subshakerz]

If the goats played in a different era.
1. Don Bradman (1928-1948 Av: 99.94).
If he played 1989-2009 CB predicted average: 107.49
Bradman would have faced Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. Given he averaged 201.50 against South Africa, he would have done the same against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.
Also instead of the bumpers from Gubby Allen and Harry Larwood, he would have plundered the bowling of Foster, McCaugue, Richard Dawson and Phil Tufnell.
He would have struggled against Ambrose, Akram and Walsh but would have feasted on Danny Morrison and Willie Watson's gentle medium bananas and kiwi fruit gift packs.
Bradman would have dominated England, Zimbabwe, India, Pakistan, New Zealand and Bangladesh. He may have struggled against the West Indies and South Africa.
Bradman would have averaged 107 based on Steve Waugh averaging 56.05 in the final 10 years of his career between 1994 and 2004.


Can not find ATG thread so put it in here sorry

Why would be dominate Pakistan but struggle against SA?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why would be dominate Pakistan but struggle against SA?

A lot of the Aus batsmen dominated Pakistan around that time, and he's better than all them

Also by "struggle" he probably means like averaging 80

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Tendulkar had huge pressure in ODIs until Sehwag and Yuvi established themselves as match winning batsmen. When there is a huge target to chase, its him or none.
Must to score big, Must to score quick.

Kapil - no support from team mates, no support from wickets.

Akram - lacked fielding support.

 

[h_hurricane]

Bradman would be lucky that Jadeja wasn't around in 1989-2009. And he doesn't even need bodyline.

 

[Kirkut]

Kohli is not an ATG

 

[Kirkut]

I don't think it makes a big difference really at all. If you are an elite professional cricketer, you are going to deliver the goods regardless of your teammates. You switch Lara and Ponting and I would expect similar results somewhat. One reason I never liked the line 'Tendulkar faced the pressure of a billion Indian fans...'

I have always felt the "pressure of a billion people" is way overstated. I mean, yes, it is there and esp. in big games you can literally see it sometimes weigh our guys down and in cricket, sometimes all you need is that micro second of doubting yourself and that's it, especially as a batsman.

But I do feel the pressure of the team and the team mates is a very real thing and a big reason why I rate the likes of Lara and Murali so so high. Having to carry your team, to me, is the most real pressure a sportsperson faces within his sport.

I honestly don't buy the pressure thing. I used to believe in stuff like how Lara carried the West Indian batting line up and Tendulkar had a pressure of billion, more like the billion loved him rather than imposing pressure.

Lara was an artist, his batting would have lacked that flow had he put pressure on himself.

 

[subshakerz]

I honestly don't buy the pressure thing. I used to believe in stuff like how Lara carried the West Indian batting line up and Tendulkar had a pressure of billion, more like the billion loved him rather than imposing pressure.

Lara was an artist, his batting would have lacked that flow had he put pressure on himself.

If we assume a batsman in a weak team faces more pressure because he regularly comes in at bad situations and needs to recover his team or lead them to victory, this batsman ends up becoming undroppable regardless of their form.

Whereas if a batsman in a strong batting lineup has an extended bad run of form, he faces pressure to score and retain his place, as Steve Waugh did towards the end of his career.

I personally think it all evens out. Even in a strong lineup, you will be sufficiently tested to prove your mettle, and in a weak lineup, you adjust to the expectation to score.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I honestly don't buy the pressure thing. I used to believe in stuff like how Lara carried the West Indian batting line up and Tendulkar had a pressure of billion, more like the billion loved him rather than imposing pressure.

Lara was an artist, his batting would have lacked that flow had he put pressure on himself.

I think the pressure thing is definitely real, where it falls apart is when someone tries to claim something like Tendulkar would have averaged more in a stronger team. That doesn't mean it isn't a big deal though, it just means he (and Lara, Border etc) handled the pressure really well and performed despite of it, which a lot of players maybe couldn't have done.

 

[subshakerz]

Are there examples of ATG players that we can be reasonably confident that they wouldnt have done as well if they were in weaker teams?