Ashwin vs Jadeja

[Rob Wesley]

Jadeja has 33 Tests, Ashwin 32 and Kumble 27 (since 2000, since that was the point of discussion with regards to Kumble's quality).

And what does this prove? Because here you are counting only 7 years of Kumble career and entire career of both.

 

[Xix2565]

And what does this prove? Because here you are counting only 7 years of Kumble career and entire career of both.

It proves I was on topic since that was the point of discussion. Nothing more, nothing less. If you wanted to discuss the whole career then say so because I don't mind conceding that Kumble played more away from home overall in his career than Ashwin for various reasons not necessarily based on their qualities as spinners.

 

[subshakerz]

They are your feelings, not mine to be clear.

It actually does because it shows that Ashwin was being picked as the lead spinner often enough until 2018 onwards where he got injured, Hardik lost his Test fitness and Jadeja's improved batting allowed Jadeja to come in more from then on. If the point is Kumble kept getting picked regardless, well Ashwin's played more games than him anyway.

Jadeja would get picked often when it wasn't as spin friendly too and his batting was seen as more hekpful. Kumble kept getting picked. Affects numbers.

 

[Rob Wesley]

It proves I was on topic since that was the point of discussion. Nothing more, nothing less. If you wanted to discuss the whole career then say so because I don't mind conceding that Kumble played more away from home overall in his career than Ashwin for various reasons not necessarily based on their qualities as spinners.

Okay but if we need to compare who played more % of games outside of Asia, then we should count the number of games that India played outside of Asia in 2000s till Kumble’ s final test, calculate its % and do the same for Ashwin.

 

[CricAddict]

I am waiting for the day that subs gets over his obsession with Jadeja.

 

[Xix2565]

Jadeja would get picked often when it wasn't as spin friendly too and his batting was seen as more hekpful. Kumble kept getting picked. Affects numbers.

Jadeja didn't play much early on because he was the worse spinner compared to Ashwin. He eventually got ahead because of what I said earlier with fitness issues and form, and he's still missed quite a lot of games due to his fitness problems. Kumble was fitter than both, sure, but that doesn't make him automatically better without looking at how well they all performed relatively. You're attributing these numbers to incorrect reasons.

Okay but if we need to compare who played more % of games outside of Asia, then we should count the number of games that India played outside of Asia in 2000s till Kumble’ s final test, calculate its % and do the same for Ashwin.

We don't need to compare percentage of games played to determine how well they bowled outside of Asia. It's a meaningless tangent. Refer to above and earlier for why Ashwin/Jadeja didn't play as much as they could've outside of Asia and move on to looking at their records in those Tests if you want to find the best spin options.

 

[Rob Wesley]

Jadeja didn't play much early on because he was the worse spinner compared to Ashwin. He eventually got ahead because of what I said earlier with fitness issues and form, and he's still missed quite a lot of games due to his fitness problems. Kumble was fitter than both, sure, but that doesn't make him automatically better without looking at how well they all performed relatively. You're attributing these numbers to incorrect reasons.

We don't need to compare percentage of games played to determine how well they bowled outside of Asia. It's a meaningless tangent. Refer to above and earlier for why Ashwin/Jadeja didn't play as much as they could've outside of Asia and move on to looking at their records in those Tests if you want to find the best spin options.

We can look at performances surely and what we will find is that in SENA, Kumble does better than both Ashwin and Jadeja.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=wickets;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

Averages:-

Kumble - 37
Ashwin - 39.5
Jadeja - 42

Ashwin’s overall away record outside Asia only looks good due to bashing Windies who were a joke batting all his career. Kumble has managed better numbers without a support like those two had.

 

[Xix2565]

We can look at performances surely and what we will find is that in SENA, Kumble does better than both Ashwin and Jadeja.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_away=3;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=wickets;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

Averages:-

Kumble - 37
Ashwin - 39.5
Jadeja - 42

Ashwin’s overall away record outside Asia only looks good due to bashing Windies who were a joke batting all his career.

Okay and? That's the point we got to after Subs' generalization, sure but his overall point is still incorrect.

 

[subshakerz]

I am waiting for the day that subs gets over his obsession with Jadeja.

I genuinely am not. And I thought I'm supposed to be anti-Ashwin?

 

[subshakerz]

Okay and? That's the point we got to after Subs' generalization, sure but his overall point is still incorrect.

No my point was particular to SENA he is correct.

 

[Xix2565]

I genuinely am not. And I thought I'm supposed to be anti-Ashwin?

You're anti-Indian, we've confirmed that a long time ago. You just have processing issues when it comes to comparing Indian records with context.

No my point was particular to SENA he is correct.

You said away and not SENA. Please don't lie here.

 

[CricAddict]

I genuinely am not. And I thought I'm supposed to be anti-Ashwin?

Are you really contesting it? You are anti Ashwin and Anti Jadeja. Your last 1000 posts testify to that.

 

[subshakerz]

Jadeja didn't play much early on because he was the worse spinner compared to Ashwin. He eventually got ahead because of what I said earlier with fitness issues and form, and he's still missed quite a lot of games due to his fitness problems. Kumble was fitter than both, sure, but that doesn't make him automatically better without looking at how well they all performed relatively. You're attributing these numbers to incorrect reasons.

You yourself said Ashwin was being dropped not because of just fitness but Jadeja the bat (as in his bowling wasn't seen as important enough on those surfaces)

 

[subshakerz]

Are you really contesting it? You are anti Ashwin and Anti Jadeja. Your last 1000 posts testify to that.

Do you think I'm anti-India?

 

[subshakerz]

You're anti-Indian, we've confirmed that a long time ago. You just have processing issues when it comes to comparing Indian records with context.

Nobody asked you but anyways rating Kumble higher doesn't make me anti-India. I've been accused just a couple of days ago of being an Indian nationalist in this forum.

You said away and not SENA. Please don't lie here.

Obviously meant we discard WI and SL.

 

[CricAddict]

Do you think I'm anti-India?

No I don't think so personally. But you are anti-popular and logical opinions

 

[subshakerz]

No I don't think so personally. But you are anti-popular and logical opinions

I think I am the biggest Tendulkar fan on this site.

Please accept that my views are genuine assessments from my part.

 

[Xix2565]

You yourself said Ashwin was being dropped not because of just fitness but Jadeja the bat (as in his bowling wasn't seen as important enough on those surfaces)

He wasn't really dropped though? I would say he was rotated around like MacGill in his career at times, especially post 2020 because of India picking more seamers and Shardul Thakur having a mini career. I don't see that as a big negative, it would've happened to any other Indian spinner you 'like' in this discussion because of the circumstances, including Kumble.

 

[CricAddict]

Ashwin and Jadeja genuinely bamboozled batsmen through their bowling on helpful pitches. Kumble was more like Kapil in the sense everyone around him were bad and he was the only quality bowler. So, he just got loads of wickets through sheer volume and being a quality bowler. Less said about his batting and fielding the better it is. There has been countless times in my childhood that Sachin had played a great knock and India lost the matches due to the terrible bowlers. Thankfully, it is not the case now after Ash-Jaddu came in.

 

[subshakerz]

Ashwin and Jadeja genuinely bamboozled batsmen through their bowling on helpful pitches. Kumble was more like Kapil in the sense everyone around him were bad and he was the only quality bowler. So, he just got loads of wickets through sheer volume and being a quality bowler. Less said about his batting and fielding the better it is. There has been countless times in my childhood that Sachin had played a great knock and India lost the matches due to the terrible bowlers. Thankfully, it is not the case now after Ash-Jaddu came in.

Please check Kumbles record in the 90s on helpful home pitches. It's pretty much as good as theirs.