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Ashley Noffke

Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
pasag said:
What does 'Zaheer Khan and James Franklin > Johnson' have to do with Johnson being a couple of steps away from world class?
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I'm probably being harsh on Khan here as he is, or at least almost world class however Franklin is more than a couple of steps away from world class and Johnson is not better than him yet therefore must be further away from being world class.
 
age_master

age_master

Hall of Fame Member
Top_Cat said:
Despite the fact Johnson took four in the first innings at Perth and has rarely failed to take a wicket in any innings he's bowled and when he hasn't, his RPO has been around 2?



Tait, yes. Johnson, no way. There is no way his spot should be under threat. I came into this summer thinking his selection was (just) merited but he's been excellent, several wide deliveries at Sydney notwithstanding. He's one or two steps away from being world class, has been threatening all summer and has bowled better than most thought he would. Lacking that one element of luck too (how many times has he tied Dravid in knots?).

Noffke would be a decent replacement but in a Chris Rogers situation; to cover injury. At this stage, no way should Johnson's place be in trouble.
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:blink: Johnson has been poor alot of the time. more so in Sydney and Perth then Melbourne perhaps but he has struggled to bowl accurately and has let the pressure off the Indian batsmen which was built up by Clark and Lee.

His returns for the series:

Melbourne:
13 overs 0/25
15 overs 3/21 (when India were chasing 499)

Sydney:
37 overs 2/148 (rpo of 4)
11 overs 0/33

Perth:
28.2 overs 4/86
10 overs 1/58 (in the same innings Andrew Symonds bowled 10 overs 2/36 and Michael Clarke bowled 13 overs 0/38)

The Indian left armers both swung the ball throughout the game yet Johnson only managed to get a few to swing despite his supposed ability to swing the ball back into right handers.

First class averages might not mean everything but it stands out that Johnson has a long way to go:

Nathan Bracken:
61 matches, 201 wickets @25.79

Ashley Noffke:
95 matches, 333 wickets @28.44 (also 2918 runs at 27)

Ben Hilfenhaus
26 matches, 112 wickets @30.75

Mitchell Johnson
28 matches, 92 wickets @31.21


And for comparison
Stuart Clark
87 matches, 326 wickets @26.88

Brett Lee
100 matches, 427 wickets @27.35
 
pasag

pasag

RTDAS
Flem274* said:
I'm probably being harsh on Khan here as he is, or at least almost world class however Franklin is more than a couple of steps away from world class and Johnson is not better than him yet therefore must be further away from being world class.
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Zaheer is world class, Franklin I haven't seen much of in Tests only ODIs (although I'll take Prince's word that he's rather good) but that doesn't really have much to do with Johnson being a few steps away. He's not the finished product by any means and after he works on a few things and gets a bit of experience under his belt he'll definitely be knocking on that door.
 
Top_Cat

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
age_master said:
:blink: Johnson has been poor alot of the time. more so in Sydney and Perth then Melbourne perhaps but he has struggled to bowl accurately and has let the pressure off the Indian batsmen which was built up by Clark and Lee.
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What you saw and what I saw were different. I think he's bowled just fine overall. Sure a few wide spells now and again but he's put the brakes on the batsmen a lot of time even when not taking wickets. This is a major improvement in his game because he's never been one for economy.

age_master said:
The Indian left armers both swung the ball throughout the game yet Johnson only managed to get a few to swing despite his supposed ability to swing the ball back into right handers.
Click to expand...
And this makes me wonder where you get your info; Johnson has never been a noted swing bowler, always a hit-the-deck type.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
pasag said:
Zaheer is world class, Franklin I haven't seen much of in Tests only ODIs (although I'll take Prince's word that he's rather good) but that doesn't really have much to do with Johnson being a few steps away. He's not the finished product by any means and after he works on a few things and gets a bit of experience under his belt he'll definitely be knocking on that door.
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But if Franklin is better and is a reasonable distance away from world class, how can Johnson only be a few steps away?

I don't think Johnson will ever be world class in ODIs. Tests maybe, its hard to tell at this early stage but he is definitely more than a few steps away. He has a hell of a long way to go yet.
 
pasag

pasag

RTDAS
Flem274* said:
But if Franklin is better and is a reasonable distance away from world class, how can Johnson only be a few steps away?

I don't think Johnson will ever be world class in ODIs. Tests maybe, its hard to tell at this early stage but he is definitely more than a few steps away. He has a hell of a long way to go yet.
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Don't really see the logic tbh. Pretty arbitrary stuff you're saying here with no real foundation. Sort of a weird CW argument, "Because a>b and a is two steps a way from world class therefore b can't be two steps away from world class". Don't really see how that disproves that b isnt far off at all.

Furthermore, if you'd watch Johnson in ODIs he really is quite close to becoming a rather exceptional young bowler. He creates awkward angles at a great pace and really troubles alot of batsmen. I think I've seen nearly every ODI game he's played and he improves every single game, so I'm not really sure what you're basing that on either.
 
FaaipDeOiad

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah if anything Johnson is a much more accomplished ODI bowler than he is a test bowler, at this stage in his career. Can't see why anyone would write him off in ODIs but not in tests.

Johnson's ODI performances in India were exceptional.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Top_Cat said:
And this makes me wonder where you get your info; Johnson has never been a noted swing bowler, always a hit-the-deck type.
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But all his best performances have come when he's got the ball to bend back into the right-hander - in ODIs of course, most notably the 4-11 spell against India.

If he can't do this consistently, there's no way he's going to be a successful Test bowler.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
So... they were left-handers, and he was moving them away from them (and Tendulkar was fooled by one that went straight on in amongst them). And Dravid obviously hit a crap ball to cover to start things.

What's the point.
 
P

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
You said he's most notably for the 4-11 spell when he brought the ball back into the right hander

The wickets of Dravid and Tendulkar in that video were deliveries going away from them.
 
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