• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

An Assessment of the Group Stage Matches of this World Cup

GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
Molehill said:
Yeah, in this instance it would've made little difference.

A reminder in 2027 we'll have 2 groups of 7 and then the Super 6 with points carried forward (which was rubbish before and probably will be again). Can lead to farces at the end of a group stage as you work out which teams you want to qualify with you.

Given NZ lost to 4 of the Top 6 this year, they would be struggling to make the semis (would have an identical record with Afghan and Pak).
Click to expand...
Is that format confirmed?
 
Owzat

Owzat

U19 Captain
Andyhere said:
Not enough close game.
Out of 45 games, I can only remember two close game - Pak vs SA and Afg vs Australia.
Click to expand...
sadly yes, toss hasn't been that influential, England won 7 and went out, and pretty even on bat 1st vs bat 2nd

Most tosses won
7 England
5 New Zealand*, Holland, Bangladesh
4 Sri Lanka, Australia, India**, Pakistan
2 South Africa

*kiwis elected to bowl every time
**didn't seem to matter if they batted or bowled, but India got the best preparation in chasing successfully first five games, and defending last four

Totals (batting 1st)
400 or more : P3 W2 L1 (Won 66.67%)
350-399 : P8 W8 L0 (Won 100.00%
300-349 : P7 W5 L2 (Won 71.43%)
250-299 : P13 W4 L9 (Won 30.77%)
200-249 : P8 W3 L5 (Won 37.50%)
149-199 : P6 W0 L6 (Won 0.00%)

lowest total to win batting 1st was 229 all out by Holland vs Bangladesh, before the deshis worked some dirty tricks into their game. India also scored 229/9 vs England, producing the bigger margin.

Bat 1st vs Bat 2nd
Bat 1st (elected to) : P20 W7 L13
Bat 1st (inserted) : P25 W15 L10

Bat 2nd (elected to) : P25 W10 L15
Bat 2nd (asked to) : P20 W13 L7

22-23 won batting 1st vs won chasing, won toss and won game just 17/45

Closest margins
5 runs : AUS 388 vs NZL 383/9
21 runs* : NZL 401/6 vs PAK 200/1
33 runs : AUS 286 vs ENG 253
38 runs : HOL 245/8 vs SAF 207

1 wicket : PAK 270 vs SAF 271/9
3 wickets : SRL 279 vs BAN 282/7 a timed out 'classic'
3 wickets : AFG 291/5 vs AUS 293/7 or should that be Maxwell?

*determined by worthless duck method, kiwis batted 50 overs, Pakistan's target/score off 25.3 overs, I apply the WTF approach as to how a target can be so low when you have around half the overs but ALL your wickets, as good a chase as Pakistan were putting on.


isn't just about the margin, how many of the games were a contest with 25% or less to go? (although some may counter that with the Maxwell factor, a one in a thousand or more longshot exception doesn't make the rule, as most sides capitulate in same situation)

biggest margins
7+ wickets : x11
6 wickets : x3

200+ runs : x4
100-199 runs : x9
50-99 runs : x6

so 19 of the 22 games won by the side batting first were by margins of 50+ and 13 of those by 100+, although why the Pakistan chase was measured by runs is anyone's guess

amusing stat - South Africa asked to bat 4 times
428/5 vs Sri Lanka- won by 102 runs
311/7 vs Australia - won by 134 runs
399/7 vs England - won by 229 runs
357/4 vs New Zealand - won by 190 runs

(3 over 350, you'd think after the 1st total of 300+ captains would get an inkling, after 2nd more so, 3rd for sure, 4th time just plain kiwi)
 
Owzat

Owzat

U19 Captain
was England's poor start and passable finish down to lack of preparation? I'd suggest not, the squad was poorly assembled and the bowling a weak link, they won their last two games by batting 1st and wouldn't probably have mattered a lot 1st or 2nd vs Holland

bottom line is they won 3 games, against Bangladesh and Holland batting 1st and sides they would expect to beat, BUT should have won at least 4 if not 5, bowled badly against Afghans and the target was too big, and given they beat Pakistan opting to bat 1st and who were all but out barring a miracle the more relevant games to the "improve as the tournament went on" theory are games against :

6. India - conceded too many for the 4th wicket, lost by 100 runs in a low scorer, poor batting
7. Australia - little too lax bowling at times, not least the 45 runs for the last 3 wickets, and were 106/4 and 186/7, hardly form

and given a run of LWLLLLLWW I'd hardly call winning two in a row and one of those against the only non-Test side in the tournament proof of improvement through playing more games, they played SIX in September leading up to it, problem is they were never going to play non-stop through the summer and it's a flimsy excuse anyway

ODIs played immediately before World Cup (June-September 2023)
17 Sri Lanka (June-September 2023)** - includes qualifiers
11 Bangladesh (July-September 2023)**
12 India (July-September 2023)**
11 Afghanistan (June-September 2023)**

8 Australia (September 2023)
8 Holland (June-September 2023) - includes qualifiers
8 Pakistan (August-September 2023)**
7 New Zealand (September 2023)*
6 England (September 2023)
5 South Africa (September 2023)

*had the sense to play 3 in Bangladesh instead of 2 against Ireland at home
**5 games in Asia Cup August to September 2023

The fact that South Africa qualified and played only FIVE since March before the World Cup puts the whole warm up/not enough games nonsense to bed, that and that of the sides to reach the semis THREE out of 4 played 5-8 games since March leading up to the tournament and of the teams that played 11-17 ODIs only one made the semis of whom that is the hosts and arguably strongest side which I think applies generally

also England lost to all the sides that qualified for the semis, therein is the problem for England:

9 wkts vs NZL (7)
229 runs vs SAF (5)
100 runs vs IND (12)
33 runs vs AUS (8)

number of games played June to September in brackets, outplayed, outclassed, did show some fight against the aussies but problem was their bowling which fired mainly when helpful conditions or a big total to defend - even against Sri Lanka the bowlers only took 2 wickets

oh and England scored 129, 156 and 170, only the 156 batting first ie had they made best of the toss when won and batted first might have done more

282/9 vs NZL - bowling wasn't good
364/9 vs BAN - won
156 vs SRL - lost badly, was the one poor total batting 1st
339/9 vs HOL - won
337/9 vs PAK - won

THERE is your answer, bowlers didn't cut it against kiwis, pitiful batting vs Sri Lanka, but 4/5 were good totals and simply made a right mess of the defence of the title
 
A

Arachnodouche

International Captain
- Ensure that the team that wins all group games gets an automatic bye through to the finals since they've quite literally already proven to be the best in the world.
- Make it a best-of-3-finals
- Let the rest fight among themselves for the privilege to play in the finals against the best team in the world. The farsighted IPL has already set a precedent of sorts in this regard. Nos. 2, 3, 4 can engage in eliminator-style sudden-death.
- Implement this retroactively from 11/12/2023. Reschedule current tournament accordingly.
 
Daemon

Daemon

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Arachnodouche said:
- Ensure that the team that wins all group games gets an automatic bye through to the finals since they've quite literally already proven to be the best in the world.
- Make it a best-of-3-finals
- Let the rest fight among themselves for the privilege to play in the finals against the best team in the world. The farsighted IPL has already set a precedent of sorts in this regard. Nos. 2, 3, 4 can engage in eliminator-style sudden-death.
- Implement this retroactively from 11/12/2023. Reschedule current tournament accordingly.
Click to expand...
11 December is too late. Unless you’re doing MM/DD/YYYY which makes you a terrible person.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Molehill said:
Question for the future, would having a bonus point system work better than NRR? I remember it was used in Aus, extra point for chasing inside 40 overs or winning by over 20%.
Click to expand...
Too open for teams to abuse it imo. Stephen Fleming got Adam Parore and others to block rather than chase vs SA to eliminate Australia.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Owzat said:
was England's poor start and passable finish down to lack of preparation? I'd suggest not, the squad was poorly assembled and the bowling a weak link, they won their last two games by batting 1st and wouldn't probably have mattered a lot 1st or 2nd vs Holland

bottom line is they won 3 games, against Bangladesh and Holland batting 1st and sides they would expect to beat, BUT should have won at least 4 if not 5, bowled badly against Afghans and the target was too big, and given they beat Pakistan opting to bat 1st and who were all but out barring a miracle the more relevant games to the "improve as the tournament went on" theory are games against :

6. India - conceded too many for the 4th wicket, lost by 100 runs in a low scorer, poor batting
7. Australia - little too lax bowling at times, not least the 45 runs for the last 3 wickets, and were 106/4 and 186/7, hardly form

and given a run of LWLLLLLWW I'd hardly call winning two in a row and one of those against the only non-Test side in the tournament proof of improvement through playing more games, they played SIX in September leading up to it, problem is they were never going to play non-stop through the summer and it's a flimsy excuse anyway

ODIs played immediately before World Cup (June-September 2023)
17 Sri Lanka (June-September 2023)** - includes qualifiers
11 Bangladesh (July-September 2023)**
12 India (July-September 2023)**
11 Afghanistan (June-September 2023)**

8 Australia (September 2023)
8 Holland (June-September 2023) - includes qualifiers
8 Pakistan (August-September 2023)**
7 New Zealand (September 2023)*
6 England (September 2023)
5 South Africa (September 2023)

*had the sense to play 3 in Bangladesh instead of 2 against Ireland at home
**5 games in Asia Cup August to September 2023

The fact that South Africa qualified and played only FIVE since March before the World Cup puts the whole warm up/not enough games nonsense to bed, that and that of the sides to reach the semis THREE out of 4 played 5-8 games since March leading up to the tournament and of the teams that played 11-17 ODIs only one made the semis of whom that is the hosts and arguably strongest side which I think applies generally

also England lost to all the sides that qualified for the semis, therein is the problem for England:

9 wkts vs NZL (7)
229 runs vs SAF (5)
100 runs vs IND (12)
33 runs vs AUS (8)

number of games played June to September in brackets, outplayed, outclassed, did show some fight against the aussies but problem was their bowling which fired mainly when helpful conditions or a big total to defend - even against Sri Lanka the bowlers only took 2 wickets

oh and England scored 129, 156 and 170, only the 156 batting first ie had they made best of the toss when won and batted first might have done more

282/9 vs NZL - bowling wasn't good
364/9 vs BAN - won
156 vs SRL - lost badly, was the one poor total batting 1st
339/9 vs HOL - won
337/9 vs PAK - won

THERE is your answer, bowlers didn't cut it against kiwis, pitiful batting vs Sri Lanka, but 4/5 were good totals and simply made a right mess of the defence of the title
Click to expand...
NZ (strangely) sent a B team to Bangladesh on that tour with few top players in it.
 
Aidan11

Aidan11

International Vice-Captain
In a nutshell...

England underperformed
Afghanistan were impressive
The semi finalists came as no surprise.
 
I

Isura

U19 Captain
40 over games played over 4 innings of 20 alternating batting and bowling. it will make for more interesting strategy decisions like holding back some top batsmen for 2nd innings. And less impact of due or pitch on side winning the toss.
 
Molehill

Molehill

International Captain
Arachnodouche said:
- Ensure that the team that wins all group games gets an automatic bye through to the finals since they've quite literally already proven to be the best in the world.
-
Click to expand...
I'd strongly consider giving the semi final toss advantage to the two teams who finished at the top in the group stages.
 
L

loterry1994

International Debutant
Imagine it goes to a South Africa Vs New Zealand final the neutrals on this forum won’t know who they want to win
 
GIMH

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
loterry1994 said:
Imagine it goes to a South Africa Vs New Zealand final the neutrals on this forum won’t know who they want to win
Click to expand...
I'll support New Zealand if they all stop this 'we didn't lose the final' bleating. Do you think French football fans say that ****? Idiots
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top