Allan Knott vs Ben Stokes

[Cricket Bliss]

That defense is completely fine for slower bowling, Are you annoyed he isn't teaching them how to block pace bowling no kid is capable of producing.

McCabe hits like any Batsman from the 70s for example

and Yes, Bradman would destroy 70s pacers, he wrecked Ray Lindwall when passed the age of 40, the hell is some trundler from 70s doing? also, are you referencing this?
View attachment 48767
Because Bradman in this photo hooked the ball, naturally the position he would be in when he hooked the ball is not necessarily the same as he was in when he must've started the hook shot.

Topping up, Hobbs is 50+ there, retired from International Cricket for years and so forth, here is the technique of Herbert Sutcliffe

and here is Geoffrey Boycott playing

if anything I'd argue Sutcliffe seems to display quicker feet movement, a less taxxing backlift, straighter bat shots and better generally better strokeplay, much faster running too. The latter is also arguably the grittiest technican of the 70s on top.

Plus, if the technique was outdated, the 70s pacers would've atleast managed to break through Boycott when Boycott is unanimously considered inferior technically to Hutton.

Also how could many batsmen, even bowlers play after the age 40? in the past decade only 3 passed that age.. Tendulkar, Chanderpaul and Anderson..and 42 was the highest age… how did many batsmen after developing large belly still survived through 40s easily? after the 70s such players were pretty rare…Brian Close might be the final one of that kind.
Fire in Babylon documentary even mentions fitness among Cricketers even began in the 1970s at the WSC.

 

[Johan]

Also how could many batsmen, even bowlers play after the age 40? in the past decade only 3 passed that age.. Tendulkar, Chanderpaul and Anderson..and 42 was the highest age… how did many batsmen after developing large belly still survived through 40s easily? after the 70s such players were pretty rare…Brian Close might be the final one of that kind.
Fire in Babylon documentary even mentions fitness among Cricketers even began in the 1970s at the WSC.

Geoffrey Boycott is the clear case, he was making hundreds against Marshall and Holding after crossing 40, Gooch also made a hundred against Ambrose after crossing 40. Nowadays Teams phase players out after an age, not true back then.

 

[sayon basak]

I wonder how these era arguments entered this thread. Very rare in CW.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Geoffrey Boycott is the clear case, he was making hundreds against Marshall and Holding after crossing 40, Gooch also made a hundred against Ambrose after crossing 40.

Yes mate, they did.. but that didn’t went above early 40s and by the way they were revered for their greatness.
How did a large amount of cricketers played after their 40 and went along untill mid 40s?
Patsy Hendren, George Gunn, Gubby Allen, Percy Holmes etc.
The revered ones like Boycott went untill 47 (Frank Woolley)
After the 70s cricketers crossing 40 was 2-3 per decade and crossing 42 was rare.
Boycott would have played till 46 if he played in that era.

 

[Johan]

Yes mate, they did.. but that didn’t went above early 40s and by the way they were revered for their greatness.
How did a large amount of cricketers played after their 40 and went along untill mid 40s?
Patsy Hendren, George Gunn, Gubby Allen, Percy Holmes etc.
The revered ones like Boycott went untill 47 (Frank Woolley)
After the 70s cricketers crossing 40 was 2-3 per decade and crossing 42 was rare.
Boycott would have played till 46 if he played in that era.

Sure, substantially less Test matches and Travel is the prevelant reasons I can think of.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Jack Fingelton said Larwood was twice as quick as anyone out there. He was regarded as the quickest bowler ever to breathe on those days even quicker than Gregory.
Although google suggest 154 kph… some studies say he might be between 137-147. Lets give a shot at 140-150, although Larwood denied he bowled at 90mph.
So based on that the other fast bowlers should be in their 130s at best. A fast medium of the 1970s have to be in atleast 120s.

Well, I don't have much to say of the Larwood speed put here. What I have to say is taking Fingleton's word like this perfect bullshit. If we take his top speed at 160kmph even, that would put the 2nd at 80, I ****ing bowl faster than that.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Well, I don't have much to say of the Larwood speed put here. What I have to say is taking Fingleton's word like this perfect bullshit. If we take his top speed at 160kmph even, that would put the 2nd at 80, I ****ing bowl faster than that.

I didn’t literally mean twice, nor did fingleton.. It meant substantial difference or not close.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Sure, substantially less Test matches and Travel is the prevelant reasons I can think of.

travel upto an extent could be, don’t think Test Matches. They played First Class matches thrice the amount today.

 

[sayon basak]

Well, I don't have much to say of the Larwood speed put here. What I have to say is taking Fingleton's word like this perfect bullshit. If we take his top speed at 160kmph even, that would put the 2nd at 80, I ****ing bowl faster than that.

Believe me, you don't.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Believe me, you don't.

Actually I am very confident I used to, atleast.

 

[Thala_0710]

Believe me, you don't.

Most guys would get upto 100 no problem actually if they really tried

 

[Thala_0710]

Reminder, he's saying kmph and not mph

 

[capt_Luffy]

I didn’t literally mean twice, nor did fingleton.. It meant substantial difference or not close.

Did he included the WI pacers or just compared Larwood with the Post Gregory/McDonald and pre Lindwall/Miller Aussie ones??

 

[sayon basak]

Well, I don't have much to say of the Larwood speed put here. What I have to say is taking Fingleton's word like this perfect bullshit. If we take his top speed at 160kmph even, that would put the 2nd at 80, I ****ing bowl faster than that.

As a person who thinks Larwood bowled 257.3 kmph rockets, this is very offensive.

 

[Johan]

Twice is obviously an exaggeration, Fingleton's eyes weren't cameras.

 

[peterhrt]

Not supporting Knott here, but wouldn’t that change occur even if Knott hadn’t stood back, since the medium pacers of 1970s were like the quicks of the 1930s (bar Larwood)

When English pitches were uncovered there were quite a few medium-pacers in county cricket who nibbled the ball around - perhaps about 70 mph or so. Their effectiveness was enhanced when the keeper stood up to prevent batsmen leaving the crease. Alan Dixon was one such bowler for Kent and Knott stood back to him. Evans had stood up to the same bowler.

In Tests Knott stood up to Basil D'Oliveira who was slower than Dixon.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Jack Fingelton said Larwood was twice as quick as anyone out there. He was regarded as the quickest bowler ever to breathe on those days even quicker than Gregory.
Although google suggest 154 kph… some studies say he might be between 137-147. Lets give a shot at 140-150, although Larwood denied he bowled at 90mph.
So based on that the other fast bowlers should be in their 130s at best. A fast medium of the 1970s have to be in atleast 120s.

"Twice as fast as" is obviously exaggeration/hyperbole.

Gubby Allen, who refused to bowl Bodyline, is classified as fast and could bowl 140. Larwood would've been 150+.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Also how could many batsmen, even bowlers play after the age 40? in the past decade only 3 passed that age.. Tendulkar, Chanderpaul and Anderson..and 42 was the highest age… how did many batsmen after developing large belly still survived through 40s easily? after the 70s such players were pretty rare…Brian Close might be the final one of that kind.
Fire in Babylon documentary even mentions fitness among Cricketers even began in the 1970s at the WSC.

Geoffrey Boycott is the clear case, he was making hundreds against Marshall and Holding after crossing 40, Gooch also made a hundred against Ambrose after crossing 40. Nowadays Teams phase players out after an age, not true back then.

Yes mate, they did.. but that didn’t went above early 40s and by the way they were revered for their greatness.
How did a large amount of cricketers played after their 40 and went along untill mid 40s?
Patsy Hendren, George Gunn, Gubby Allen, Percy Holmes etc.
The revered ones like Boycott went untill 47 (Frank Woolley)
After the 70s cricketers crossing 40 was 2-3 per decade and crossing 42 was rare.
Boycott would have played till 46 if he played in that era.

Imran Tahir is still playing top level T20 league cricket at 46. He just won the GSL for Guyana a couple of days ago.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

"Twice as fast as" is obviously exaggeration/hyperbole.

Gubby Allen, who refused to bowl Bodyline, is classified as fast and could bowl 140. Larwood would've been 150+.

Twice meant just substantial difference and not the literal meaning

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Imran Tahir is still playing top level T20 league cricket at 46. He just won the GSL for Guyana a couple of days ago.

Was referring to Test Cricket. Domestic Cricket is another story. C S Nayudu played until he was more than 60.
Rhodes and Ironmonger played Tests until they were 50, Grimmett 44, can a spinner from the 1970s play untill that age in Tests! Even if today’s spinners take wickets after turning 40 in the domestic competitions they get recognition.