5th Test (The Oval) - 31st July to 4th August

[Johan]

Was 2019 not still Trevor Bayliss? I agreed that the other three tests were rather dull but yes those two games were brilliant.

I think Silverwood took over in October of 2019 Yeah, I just think people just enjoyed England being 20-3 every game and mistake that for good balanced varied Cricket.

 

[Spark]

Name one Test except Headingley 2019 in Silverwood England as good as Lord's or Oval this series.

You've named the two Test pitches which actually were more traditional English style pitches as opposed to Edgbaston/OT style dross.

 

[Johan]

You've named the two Test pitches which actually were more traditional English style pitches as opposed to Edgbaston/OT style dross.

Old Trafford has been flat for a while, both 2013 Ashes and 2019 Ashes saw OT as a pretty high scoring ground. Edgbaston was a dissapointing ground but that was more about the weather than the turf itself, in either case the point stands, Shady made it seem like Cricket in England was more entertaining before 2022 but it doesn't seem like anyone can name a highly competitive entertaining game in England between 2017 and 2021 except Headingley 2019.

 

[Spark]

Old Trafford has been flat for a while, both 2013 Ashes and 2019 Ashes saw OT as a pretty high scoring ground. Edgbaston was a dissapointing ground but that was more about the weather than the turf itself, in either case the point stands, Shady made it seem like Cricket in England was more entertaining before 2022 but it doesn't seem like anyone can name a highly competitive entertaining game in England between 2017 and 2021 except Headingley 2019.

I mean no one's responding to you because of how strange your views were the last time you brought this up. Otherwise people would have brought up most of the India 2021 series, the 2020 game between England and Pakistan was a great game as well, as was the 1st Test against WI that year. However it seems that you view any game in which England didn't bat well as ruled out by default.

And if we're going to go back to 2017 (I dunno why we're doing that), then why are we ignoring the 2018 India series too? 1st, 4th and 5th Tests were great games of cricket and even the 3rd, which was one sided, was light years better as a spectacle than "only bouncers this session".

 

[Johan]

I mean no one's responding to you because of how strange your views were the last time you brought this up. Otherwise people would have brought up most of the India 2021 series, the 2020 game between England and Pakistan was a great game as well, as was the 1st Test against WI that year. However it seems that you view any game in which England didn't bat well as ruled out by default.

And if we're going to go back to 2017 (I dunno why we're doing that), then why are we ignoring the 2018 India series too? 1st, 4th and 5th Tests were great games of cricket and even the 3rd, which was one sided, was light years better as a spectacle than "only bouncers this session".

most of the 2021 series only had a single result in contention on the final day, Oval Test was great but Headingley was a curbstomp and so was Lord's and one side wasn't in the game in those games. 2018 series is fair play, but even it had some dull games, so did the 2020 Pakistan series. Generally, I can find more dour and pretty straight forward series in 2010s England than in 2020s England, the 2017 South Africa series comes to mind where each result was obvious after the first innings, or When Pakistan toured in 2016 and almost every game was played on a road etc, The 2015 Ashes had "traditional English pitches" and was a pretty boring series too. The Idea that England pitches before Bazball were some completely different paradises where every series was high quality just isn't true, hell I'd argue Cricket in England has been more exciting and less grim post 2022 than before it, there have been odd games where the wicket got a little too flat but that has always been a thing.

even the Last Ashes was great other than one game where it rained too much. Bouncer thing is just bad bowling, there was plenty of bad cricket by England in Pre-2022 era.

 

[Johan]

The worst and the most forgettable series I've seen in England in last 3 years has lowkey been the South Africa 2022 series and it was lowkey one of the lowest scoring tours in history of English Cricket, that says a lot.

 

[Spark]

most of the 2021 series only had a single result in contention on the final day, Oval Test was great but Headingley was a curbstomp and so was Lord's and one side wasn't in the game in those games. 2018 series is fair play, but even it had some dull games, so did the 2020 Pakistan series. Generally, I can find more dour and pretty straight forward serieses in 2010s England than in 2020s England, the 2017 South Africa series comes to mind where each result was obvious after the first innings, or When Pakistan toured in 2016 and almost every game was played on a road etc. The Idea that England pitches before Bazball were some completely different paradises where every series was high quality just isn't true, hell I'd argue Cricket in England has been more exciting and less grim post 2022 than before it, there have been odd games where the wicket got a little too flat but that has always been a thing.

even the Last Ashes was great other than one game where it rained too much. Bouncer thing is just bad bowling, there was plenty of bad cricket by England in Pre-2022 era.

Just because a result is unclear on the last day doesn't automatically make it a good game of cricket. Some terrible games of cricket have abruptly become very tense on the last day because the game sped up massively. Balance between bat and ball is what's required and pre-2022 England did that better than anyone. Better than Australia, South Africa or India.

 

[Johan]

Just because a result is unclear on the last day doesn't automatically make it a good game of cricket. Some terrible games of cricket have abruptly become very tense on the last day because the game sped up massively. Balance between bat and ball is what's required and pre-2022 England did that better than anyone. Better than Australia, South Africa or India.

Yeah I disagree, even with Pre-Bazball England, the one series where bat and ball were properly balanced was the 2017 South Africa series and the one where the ball dominated was 2018 India series, It's obvious what I'd take.

 

[Spark]

Yeah I disagree, even with Pre-Bazball England, the one series where bat and ball were properly balanced was the 2017 South Africa series and the one where the ball dominated was 2018 India series, It's obvious what I'd take.

Ball wasn't that dominant in 2018; there were plenty of 300+ innings totals.

And besides, ball > bat makes for better cricket. The games being somewhat low scoring makes every single session important, whereas I sincerely think Edgbaston and Old Trafford should have been rated as poor pitches by the ICC.

 

[Johan]

Ball wasn't that dominant in 2018; there were plenty of 300+ innings totals.

And besides, ball > bat makes for better cricket. The games being somewhat low scoring makes every single session important, whereas I sincerely think Edgbaston and Old Trafford should have been rated as poor pitches by the ICC.

In the 1st and 4th the ball was very dominant, no 300+ scores.

Sure, but that is not a new thing for England, those types of pitches have traditionally been a thing in five match serieses and there were no real consequences back then, would be weird to start being critical of them now, England isn't like South Africa where you'd go years without roads.

 

[Johan]

lol ICC rated Headingley as very good and Edgbaston/Lord's/Old Trafford as unsatisfactory

 

[govinda indian fan]

lol ICC rated Headingley as very good and Edgbaston/Lord's/Old Trafford as unsatisfactory

Thats joke. Old trafford atleast had something for fast bowlers on day 1.lords was fine and edgbaston was new ball pitch. Headingley was road which would have broken on day 15

 

[Johan]

If people genuinely think Headingley was a better deck than Lord's then it makes sense why Australia and South Africa have no idea how to make proper decks anymore.

 

[LangleyburyCCPlayer]

lol ICC rated Headingley as very good and Edgbaston/Lord's/Old Trafford as unsatisfactory

I cringed when they said they were ‘saving Test cricket’, but can you imagine how boring this series would have been if not for BazBall?

 

[Johan]

I cringed when they said they were ‘saving Test cricket’, but can you imagine how boring this series would have been if not for BazBall?

England collapses at 200 all out 1st Test after being spooked by the target.

2nd Test plays out the same but no Jamie and Harry master class.

5th Test England gets bowled at 150 trying to get a draw after being spooked by the target.

 

[honestbharani]

Ball wasn't that dominant in 2018; there were plenty of 300+ innings totals.

And besides, ball > bat makes for better cricket. The games being somewhat low scoring makes every single session important, whereas I sincerely think Edgbaston and Old Trafford should have been rated as poor pitches by the ICC.

I think Leeds was worse tbh. Toss became such a massive advantage there.

 

[ma1978]

I cringed when they said they were ‘saving Test cricket’, but can you imagine how boring this series would have been if not for BazBall?

I love Ben Stokes and Baz but the saving test cricket and the invention of aggressive batting was ridiculous.

That said, English cricket is so much better fot it. Would have been destroyed this series without it

 

[danzydab]

The worst and the most forgettable series I've seen in England in last 3 years has lowkey been the South Africa 2022 series and it was lowkey one of the lowest scoring tours in history of English Cricket, that says a lot.

It has to be the tour of India last year

 

[Johan]

It has to be the tour of India last year

Eh? that series was pretty good, Great games 1st and 4th Tests, would've been stellar if not for our terrible spin stock.

 

[Spark]

I think Leeds was worse tbh. Toss became such a massive advantage there.

I hated that pitch too tbh, I complained about it at length during the match thread