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All-Time World XIs: Discussion Thread

Thala_0710

International Captain
Asif has the FC record to back it up as well. Surely when we downgrade 2000s batters to such an extent, it makes sense to upgrade the bowlers of that era to the same extent. Less so for Bond and Asif for their shorter careers, but still I find them quite underrated.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Asif has the FC record to back it up as well. Surely when we downgrade 2000s batters to such an extent, it makes sense to upgrade the bowlers of that era to the same extent. Less so for Bond and Asif for their shorter careers, but still I find them quite underrated.
I have Asif's standardised averaged below 18, which is mental. If he had a proper career he'd have almost certainly been in ATG territory IMO, but he didn't and unlike Procter or even Bond it's entirely his fault.
 

Thala_0710

International Captain
I have Asif's standardised averaged below 18, which is mental. If he had a proper career he'd have almost certainly been in ATG territory IMO, but he didn't and unlike Procter or even Bond it's entirely his fault.
Yes it's definitely his fault. But now we're not comparing him with ATGs. We're comparing with him Akhtar, who's not bad ofc. But to me that's worse than selecting Anderson over someone like Holding
 

Thala_0710

International Captain
Yeah Akhtar didn't exactly have a full career either.
Yup, he couldn't even get fit enough to bowl a full match at times, let alone a series. Both were great on flat wickets, but Asif just a level above there as well. Had more match winning performances in his short career as well
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
On Procter, I understand people rating his bowling highly even though I wouldn't in these exercises, and if anything maybe he should have been picked as a bowler earlier based on when Barry Richards went.

But unlike his bowling and Barry's batting, we don't really have any evidence in Tests, WSC or unofficial Tests that his batting was going to translate. It's not just a small sample size, there's just no evidence he was a middle order batsman at all above domestic cricket. He was obviously a serious bowler but his batting could definitely have ended up in the Davidson category a level up - we have no evidence otherwise.
 

Line and Length

International Coach
I find it interesting that pacers who barely made our 2024 bowlers poll are being nominated before someone with over 100 wickets @ 21.11 who was ranked #32 in that poll. Who? Neil Adcock
 

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
But Asif had a clearly better test career though in this case. And accounting for how flat those Pakistani 2000s wkts were, there must not be a huge difference in their FC performances
1930s England wickets were among the flattest in history given it didn't rain, also Larwood has Barry-esque reputation and FC careers, this logic wasn't deployed for Gooch or Turner vs Barry, I don't see why it's being deployed now.
 

Thala_0710

International Captain
1930s England wickets were among the flattest in history given it didn't rain, also Larwood has Barry-esque reputation and FC careers, this logic wasn't deployed for Gooch or Turner vs Barry, I don't see why it's being deployed now.
I'm not Saying Larwood didn't have a better FC career than Asif did. Barry has basically no test sample size so it's a bit different. And he was great if you include WSC. But for guys with a lower test sample size like Larwood and Asif, there's some sample there. Asif does have 100 test wkts and crucial performances in wins vs top teams. So that weighs heavier than FC, whilst being exceptional in FC. Also, Gooch and Greenidge aren't far behind Barry for me either
 

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
I'm not Saying Larwood didn't have a better FC career than Asif did. Barry has basically no test sample size so it's a bit different. And he was great if you include WSC. But for guys with a lower test sample size like Larwood and Asif, there's some sample there. Asif does have 100 test wkts and crucial performances in wins vs top teams. So that weighs heavier than FC, whilst being exceptional in FC. Also, Gooch and Greenidge aren't far behind Barry for me either
There's zero valid or relevant sample for Larwood, he was a young bowler who had played 12 Tests who was trying to find his line and length, 1930 Ashes he was injured/ill in, 1932-33 is the infamous bodyline. Asif's sample is different.
 

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