Alan Knott VS Adam Gilchrist

[Johan]

Gilly. Not close, never has been.

why not

 

[shortpitched713]

why not

I see what you did there.

Besides for attempts to be punny, Gilchrist is just so far and away better as a bat than anyone who consistently and effectively played the WK batsman position, it's not worth comparing. The most obvious competition he has from the batting end for that position have major caveats/speculation attached to them (Sanga/Flower).

Knott is light years away from Gilchrist as a batsman.

 

[Johan]

Besides for attempts to be punny, Gilchrist is just so far and away better as a bat than anyone who consistently and effectively played the WK batsman position, it's not worth comparing. The most obvious competition he has from the batting end for that position have major caveats/speculation attached to them (Sanga/Flower).

Knott is light years away from Gilchrist as a batsman.

I actually think Knott is pretty underrated with the bat, not very close to Gilchrist but he has a 40+ away average and like every other English bat from the era, really tough home conditions (26), if you give him the same conditions as Gilchrist where both away and home is flat, and then an ATG batting lineup shielding him, I can see him come close to 40 average or reach there.

Anyway, Think Gilly is clearly ahead but Knott is ahead of the other two, far beyond Flower in keeping, to the point it's not even worth comparing as Flower won't keep in any real test standard side.

 

[kyear2]

I agree Knott is miles/kilometers/bananas ahead as a gloveman but is he that far behind Gilchrist as a batsman? Looking at pure batting averages Gillie is well in front. However, in 137 knocks he scored 50 or more 43 times (31.38% of his innings) while Knott reached 50 in 55 of 149 knocks (36.91%).
The big difference in batting averages occur because Gilchrist converted 17 of his 43 50s into 'tons' while Knott did so just 5 times in his 55 half centuries. In addition, Gilchrist had more red ink (20) than Knott (15) despite having fewer innings.
Having said all that, Gilchrist set new standards as a 'keeper/batsman and is understandably selected in most ATG sides. However, I think time has dimmed some memories (not mine) of Knott and he is often overlooked.

Worth the re read.

I'll add to it shortly.

Bob Taylor was all class with the gloves but, imo, Knott wasn't far behind him. Some of his 'keeping to Derek 'Deadly' Underwood on turning wickets was worth watching.

Someone posted a video of Deadly in a comparison thread, I mentioned at the time that while it wasn't the purpose of the thread, two of those takes were ****ing ridiculous.

I went back and hunted for more Deadly long form.bids, and Knott is just special


Healy was easily the best I've seen, Knott was better, and Healy is already two tiers above Gilly as a keeper.

And it's somewhat interesting that keeper id the only position where (the cricketing establishment) prioritizes the secondary skill over the primary, but I do understand that it's an all rounder position.

But Knott makes me double take on a lot of positions.

 

[sayon basak]

Barnes > Any bowler in history

Either he is the best ever or he shouldn’t be in any list

I'd guess nearly half of your profile is filled with this post.

 

[kyear2]

Yes

He's really not, and I would suggest that the gap between their batting is smaller than that of their keeping.

Before I go further, Gilchrist was a
World Class keeper and a World Class batsman.

Knott was an ATG gloveman though.

I've mentioned this before. The fraud 4 and Hayden were top order batsman, exclusively top 3 or 4, and they are all discounted for what they did in that era. That included Haydos and Punter in his own lineup. They opened and batted at three, yet Haydos isn't rated as an ATG, and Punter is down graded for era and coming in after a dominant opening pair and unparalleled support around him. Gilchrist had all of that and batted even lower, much lower. Think I heard Kimber mention that for the most part, when he entered the contest, it was almost already decided. He was the coup de grace, the cheat mode at the end when the bowlers were defeated.

So while The fraud 4 are discounted, somehow Gilly escapes unscathed.

Yes Gilchrist was the better batsman, and easily so, but it was always his scoring rate and not his average that made him so highly rated. I would say that Gilly's batting has become somewhat a little overated, while Knott's has become somewhat under appreciated.

 

[subshakerz]

I see what you did there.

Besides for attempts to be punny, Gilchrist is just so far and away better as a bat than anyone who consistently and effectively played the WK batsman position, it's not worth comparing. The most obvious competition he has from the batting end for that position have major caveats/speculation attached to them (Sanga/Flower).

Knott is light years away from Gilchrist as a batsman.

Gilly debuted basically at his peak, batted no 7 after a very strong batting order and played entirely in the flat era.

He wasn't as great a bat as his average suggests.

 

[kyear2]

I think I am now switching to selecting Knott in my ATG XI over Gilly

After watching the IP of Deadly the other day, that was my initial thought as well.

After watching more videos of him, even more so.

It's a legitimate argument.

Yes Gilly was very good, Knott was special

It would necessitate probably a swap from Wasim to Imran, with a then legitimate need.

Think I've asked this before, which looks better

Imran | Knott

Or

Gilchrist | Wasim

If you want the martians to win.

Why?

If you're worried about losing batting, swap Hadlee with Imran.

Wisden selected Wasim and Knott, think they knew what they were doing.

Think Willis and Boycott both select Knott in
In their XI's as well. It's not the crazy notion that it's projected to be.

 

[kyear2]

No I think the batting between Knott and Gilly is closer in reality and otherwise a keeper like Knott will enhance the bowling attack a touch more.

Somewhat like a slip cordon, huh.

Yup, I agree.

 

[kyear2]

1) No their batting isn't close
2) Might as well field Godfrey Evans if you don't care for the runs from Keeper

How is it that Punter's batting is over rated, yet the faced the same bowlers and conditions, while batting 4 spots higher, and Gilly's isn't.

 

[kyear2]

Considering every ATG team has 6 great batsmen including Don Bradman, I think choosing the best pure wicket keeper isn’t a bad idea.

The 6 best batsmen ever, Marshall and Warne are in the tail, there's no "need" to focus on the batting.

Knott is a viable choice

 

[DrWolverine]

I'd guess nearly half of your profile is filled with this post.

And Johan arguing with it

 

[DrWolverine]

The 6 best batsmen ever, Marshall and Warne are in the tail, there's no "need" to focus on the batting.

Knott is a viable choice

One of them is literally Superman

 

[kyear2]

XI
Hobbs
Hutton*
Bradman
Viv
Sachin
Sobers
Gilchrist+
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
McGrath

Bench
Muralitharan
Barnes
Imran
Hammond
Knott

Do you think Wasim, with his wizardry of the old ball, ability to swing the ball both ways in both ways and massive peer rating have any merit for the first team?

And your thoughts of Knott.

 

[subshakerz]

Somewhat like a slip cordon, huh.

Yup, I agree.

Keeper quality is even more important than slips. We aren't just talking catches, we are talking byes, stumpings, etc. and if we can afford a keeper who is essentially flawless it gives a lot more confidence to the bowling attack.

 

[Johan]

Do you think Wasim, with his wizardry of the old ball, ability to swing the ball both ways in both ways and massive peer rating have any merit for the first team?

And your thoughts of Knott.

He certainly has his arguments and should be the pick for variety, I think Hadlee/Imran/Wasim can fight for that spot, I just go all in on Hadlee figuring it out generally.

ATG gloveman, very decent bat done hard by very spicy home conditions and a weak batting, with better home conditions I think he goes north of 36 with the bat.

 

[subshakerz]

The 6 best batsmen ever, Marshall and Warne are in the tail, there's no "need" to focus on the batting.

Knott is a viable choice

I think it also depends on the opposition the ATG XI plays.

If it's regular teams, picking Gilly makes more sense to utterly destroy them with his batting.

But if we are facing a similar ATG XI, frankly I don't fancy Gillys batting against them to do real counterattacks and the gap between him and Knott is closer.

 

[subshakerz]

He certainly has his arguments and should be the pick for variety, I think Hadlee/Imran/Wasim can fight for that spot, I just go all in on Hadlee figuring it out generally.

ATG gloveman, very decent bat done hard by very spicy home conditions and a weak batting, with better home conditions I think he goes north of 36 with the bat.

Just out of interest, I argue one pacer should be an old ball reverse specialist rather than three new ball experts. Hence to me one of Steyn/Imran/Wasim should be there. What are your thoughts?

 

[Johan]

Just out of interest, I argue one pacer should be an old ball reverse specialist rather than two new ball experts. Hence to me one of Steyn/Imran/Wasim should be there. What are your thoughts?

Fair belief, I think I just back the top 3 pacers to figure it out even with McGrath's inferior reverse but believing you should have a reverse master in Wasim/Imran there is definitely a fair view too.

 

[DrWolverine]

Heart says Akram.
Mind says Imran.