Richard Hadlee vs Curtly Ambrose

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

What really seprated the Invincibles from Australia before the war was the bowling attack

Lindwall.
Miller.
Johnston.

and then Toshack and Johnson can come in at any point. It's the Best Batsman of all time (Don) combined with great batting support (Harvey, Morris, Hassett, Brown, Miller) then combined with maybe the second or third greatest bowling attack of all time.

Just imagine a spinner up there that we were producing in 30s. Not O’Reilly or Grimmett level but even Ironmonger levelish and that’s probably the best bowling lineup of all time.

 

[kyear2]

Marshall retired : 33 years
McGrath retired : 37 years
Hadlee retired : 39 years

I do not think Marshall would have sustained his excellence if he played till 36 years let alone 39 years

So this is it, after everything else, were down to conjecture.

I don't think isn't the basis of an argument.

Marshall was quicker than all of those gentleman and for a sustained period. He had a ridiculously condensed schedule of 5 test series, and a full county load. They didn't have a spinner to eat overs and he went all out. Yes, it would have worn on his body.

But there's nothing besides guesses at this point that would project how he would have adapted or performed.

Anyways, hope you don't take any of this personally, I do rate you as a poster.

 

[kyear2]

Hadlee averages 23 without Sri Lanka iirc, I don't think Marshall would go up two points unless he pulls a Ray Lindwall.

Yeah, the minnow bashing is always left out for him and Immy.

 

[DrWolverine]

McGrath nor Marshall were exciting.

Marshall wasn’t exciting? To this day my uncles rave about Marshall, his action, his run up etc

 

[DrWolverine]

But there's nothing besides guesses at this point that would project how he would have adapted or performed.

True

We have no idea how he would have done and most of us are just guessing. No right or wrong answer

 

[Coronis]

McGrath nor Marshall were exciting.

Never expected this

 

[DrWolverine]

When did Sir Richard Hadlee become a minnow basher?



Even against Pakistan, he had two ATG series.
18 wickets in 3 Tests.
16 wickets in 3 Tests.

 

[smash84]

When did Sir Richard Hadlee become a minnow basher?

View attachment 47377

Even against Pakistan, he had two ATG series.
18 wickets in 3 Tests.
16 wickets in 3 Tests.

No, Ambrose was ATG against Pakistan with 14 wickets in 4 tests. Not Hadlee you see.

 

[smash84]

This is where you again are disingenuous.

You deliberately say 25% more to make it seem like more than it was.

Marshall has 6 MOS awards from 21 series. Hadlee had 8 from 33 series.
Two of which, btw were against SL

Also I'm not even intimating that Hadlee is anything less than superb, he is very much no. 3 all time for me, it's not much of an argument. But the batsmen and pundits of the era didn't rate nearly as highly as we do.

There's nothing disingenuous about this. I just quoted that figure to call out BS on "Marshall was the man" and using man of series metric while Hadlee has more.

If you care to think a little you'll see that the 33 figure for Hadlee is misleading. He didn't play 33 full series. His total number of tests are pretty much the same as Marshall.

 

[subshakerz]

Also I'm not even intimating that Hadlee is anything less than superb, he is very much no. 3 all time for me, it's not much of an argument. But the batsmen and pundits of the era didn't rate nearly as highly as we do.

The only reason Hadlee got less pundit rating was because he was from NZ.

He appears in quite a few ATG XIs by peer cricketers by the way.

 

[subshakerz]

Marshall wasn’t exciting? To this day my uncles rave about Marshall, his action, his run up etc

Marshall was exciting. What an odd thing for Kyear to say.

 

[smash84]

Marshall wasn’t exciting? To this day my uncles rave about Marshall, his action, his run up etc

Yeah, anything to score a point.

Like what's next, Marshall was so unfit he had man boobs?

 

[Coronis]

Yeah, anything to score a point.

Like what's next, Marshall was so unfit he had man boobs?

I haven’t seen shirtless Marshall in his playing days so I’m taking it as true until proven otherwise

 

[Swamp Witch Hattie]

@smash84 actually underestimated Hadlee's margin: he has 33 1/3% more POTS than Marshall who has 25% fewer POTS than Hadlee (8 is 33 1/3% bigger than 6 which is 25% smaller than 8).

Hadlee has just one POTS against SL, BTW, not two unless you were talking about the number of series played against SL in which case Hadlee, in fact, played three series against them: two Tests in 1983, three in 1984 and one in 1987 (that series was abandoned due to civil unrest).

I don't think they gave a POTS award for the 1980 NZ-WI series but if they had, Hadlee would have surely won it for his superb all-round performances:



So that makes it 9 POTS for Hadlee, putting him 50% ahead of Marshall!

Remember, you mustn't speak ill of the dead:

 

[Coronis]

View attachment 47380

@smash84 actually underestimated Hadlee's margin: he has 33 1/3% more POTS than Marshall who has 25% fewer POTS than Hadlee (8 is 33 1/3% bigger than 6 which is 25% smaller than 8).

Hadlee has just one POTS against SL, BTW, not two unless you were talking about the number of series played against SL in which case Hadlee, in fact, played three series against them: two Tests in 1983, three in 1984 and one in 1987 (that series was abandoned due to civil unrest).

I don't think they gave a POTS award for the 1980 NZ-WI series but if they had, Hadlee would have surely won it for his superb all-round performances:

View attachment 47381

So that makes it 9 POTS for Hadlee, putting him 50% ahead of Marshall!

Remember, you mustn't speak ill of the dead:

View attachment 47382

iirc player of the match/series began to be a semi-regular thing in the 80’s. Unsure from when exactly that became an every game and series thing.

Fun exercise perhaps for us tortured souls would be to go back and award those awards for every single test and series in cricket history. Anyone game?

Also daily reminder that Jacques Kallis has the most MotM in test history.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

iirc player of the match/series began to be a semi-regular thing in the 80’s. Unsure from when exactly that became an every game and series thing.

Fun exercise perhaps for us tortured souls would be to go back and award those awards for every single test and series in cricket history. Anyone game?

Also daily reminder that Jacques Kallis has the most MotM in test history.

@capt_Luffy might be interested.

 

[DrWolverine]

Also daily reminder that Jacques Kallis has the most MotM in test history.

So?

 

[capt_Luffy]

@capt_Luffy might be interested.

Hmmm..... It does sounds interesting. Might try out after my semester ends

 

[DrWolverine]

Don Bradman played 11 test series.
I am guessing except the Bodyline, he would have won every single one of them.

 

[DrWolverine]

Just one “bad” test series performance by Don