Is Ravichandran Ashwin an ATG test bowler?

[capt_Luffy]

I didnt say Siraj is from Karnataka. Karnataka, Mumbai, NCR and the rest of India are preferred over Tamil and Malayalee south Indian players. Thats what I said. And would Shane Warne or Murali be dropped for a say Kasparowicz or Damien Flemming just because the pitch assisted seamers? I would go on to say most batsmen including Rohit Sharma and Kohli were persisted with mediocre contribution for quite sometime while Ashwin had to prove time and again every single time he played. His stats are better and more consistant than relatively measuring batsmen in bowling equiivalent where we may say 10k club is more or less equal to 500 wickets, 4 wickets haul equals a century and 5 for is equal to more or less a 150 and 10 wickets in a match can be compared to centuries in both innings. In those comparisons Ashwin ranks above most Indian contemperory players. Politics and jealousy by the RS VK mafia in Indian cricket.

That **** is well over 2-3 decades old by now. And the thought that Tamil cricketers are somehow given less preference than someone from like Bengal; is just laughable. I can think of 2 such examples on the top of my head for just the exact opposite; and one might had been political.

 

[subshakerz]

If you're not going to make the case for the other ATG spinners outside of Warne and Murali then what does your opinion count for? Isn't this what you ask other people to do for Ashwin or anyone else you don't fancy?

Why exactly should they be ATGs over Ashwin?

I do notice that you have a tendency to avoid answering when it's actually relevant though, so these along with the pitches query above should be answered first before any further discussion.

Is your stance that O'Reilly is not an ATG or that he is but Ashwin should also be? I believe he is, a large part is his rep but also his record is generally consistent too across countries, albeit he only played 27 tests.

Ashwin's overall record in SENA keeps him from being an ATG. He is just well below worldclass standards in all these countries.

 

[subshakerz]

His stats are better and more consistant than relatively measuring batsmen in bowling equiivalent where we may say 10k club is more or less equal to 500 wickets, 4 wickets haul equals a century and 5 for is equal to more or less a 150 and 10 wickets in a match can be compared to centuries in both innings. In those comparisons Ashwin ranks above most Indian contemperory players. Politics and jealousy by the RS VK mafia in Indian cricket.

Not abroad.

 

[Xix2565]

Is your stance that O'Reilly is not an ATG or that he is but Ashwin should also be? I believe he is, a large part is his rep but also his record is generally consistent too across countries, albeit he only played 27 tests.

Ashwin's overall record in SENA keeps him from being an ATG. He is just well below worldclass standards in all these countries.

My stance is that you have no standards, and are refusing to elaborate on why this is the case. Still haven't answered the questions.

 

[Niranjan Bhargav]

Greatest of all time, One of most successfull spiner at the world Cricket

 

[honestbharani]

I didnt say Siraj is from Karnataka. Karnataka, Mumbai, NCR and the rest of India are preferred over Tamil and Malayalee south Indian players. Thats what I said. And would Shane Warne or Murali be dropped for a say Kasparowicz or Damien Flemming just because the pitch assisted seamers? I would go on to say most batsmen including Rohit Sharma and Kohli were persisted with mediocre contribution for quite sometime while Ashwin had to prove time and again every single time he played. His stats are better and more consistant than relatively measuring batsmen in bowling equiivalent where we may say 10k club is more or less equal to 500 wickets, 4 wickets haul equals a century and 5 for is equal to more or less a 150 and 10 wickets in a match can be compared to centuries in both innings. In those comparisons Ashwin ranks above most Indian contemperory players. Politics and jealousy by the RS VK mafia in Indian cricket.

I wanna like this bs post coz it implies Virat and Rohit are on the same side

 

[subshakerz]

My stance is that you have no standards, and are refusing to elaborate on why this is the case. Still haven't answered the questions.

I did. O Reilly and Laker did better across countries relatively than Ashwin.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I did. O Reilly and Laker did better across countries relatively than Ashwin.

I think you misinterpreted my point with Laker. Laker did good in those places unlike Ashwin; but your main criticism of Ashwin is him not performing in non turning conditions; Laker never played on those away (atleast regularly). In every single one of those away series, the leading wicket takers were spinners; Benaud (31) over 15, Tayfield (31) over 11, Ramadhin (23) over 14, and Wilf Ferguson (23) over 18; and everyone of them did so with a better average. You could hardly call those non turning tracks.

 

[Arachnodouche]

How sticky were the wickets in Laker's time (partially/entirely covered) ? I'm sure Ashwin would love to try his hand on uncovered pitches in Aus and SA.

 

[Spark]

How sticky were the wickets in Laker's time (partially/entirely covered) ? I'm sure Ashwin would love to try his hand on uncovered pitches in Aus and SA.

Reading about the famous Laker 10-for reveals this:

On the eve of the match the newspapers were predicting a "true and lasting" pitch suited to fast bowling. England's selectors were unsure who to leave out, but in the end Fred Trueman was omitted, partially because of doubts about the weather and also because Australia had been all at sea against spin in the previous Test at Headingley where England had won by an innings and Laker and Tony Lock had taken 18 wickets between them. Despite this, the general feeling was that the game would be a draw - no Ashes Test at Old Trafford had produced a result since 1905.

However, Australian suspicions that the pitch had been prepared for the England spinners were confirmed years later when Bert Flack, the Manchester groundsman, said on the day before the start he had been instructed by Gubby Allen, the chairman of England's selectors, to shave the pitch. "That's stupid," Flack replied. "The match won't last three days. The surface is not that well knit." After pondering for a few minutes, Flack did as he had been ordered and immediately covered the pitch to prevent the press from seeing what he had done.

England ended the first day on 307 for 3, with Peter Richardson, who opened with Colin Cowdrey, scoring his maiden Test hundred. But he too was surprised at what greeted him when he walked out to bat. "[The pitch] looked totally different to how it looked the night before," he said. 'When we arrived it looked lush green, perfect for seamers. Next morning, it had been shaved right down. It looked cooked. I don't know if it was deliberately done but it certainly helped our chances of winning. It's still being discussed by the old fuddy-duddies but none of us knew what really happened with it."

When Laker skittled the Aussies

Jim Laker's 19 wickets at Old Trafford in 1956 came close to being overshadowed by a row over the Old Trafford pitch

www.espncricinfo.com

Pitch doctoring smh my head

 

[subshakerz]

I think you misinterpreted my point with Laker. Laker did good in those places unlike Ashwin; but your main criticism of Ashwin is him not performing in non turning conditions; Laker never played on those away (atleast regularly). In every single one of those away series, the leading wicket takers were spinners; Benaud (31) over 15, Tayfield (31) over 11, Ramadhin (23) over 14, and Wilf Ferguson (23) over 18; and everyone of them did so with a better average. You could hardly call those non turning tracks.

So even if he was outperformed it was a fairly solid set of away performances. You already agree he was better away but that issue on sample of pitch variety is one reason I am hesitant to call Laker an ATG.

 

[Socerer 01]

I didnt say Siraj is from Karnataka. Karnataka, Mumbai, NCR and the rest of India are preferred over Tamil and Malayalee south Indian players. Thats what I said. And would Shane Warne or Murali be dropped for a say Kasparowicz or Damien Flemming just because the pitch assisted seamers? I would go on to say most batsmen including Rohit Sharma and Kohli were persisted with mediocre contribution for quite sometime while Ashwin had to prove time and again every single time he played. His stats are better and more consistant than relatively measuring batsmen in bowling equiivalent where we may say 10k club is more or less equal to 500 wickets, 4 wickets haul equals a century and 5 for is equal to more or less a 150 and 10 wickets in a match can be compared to centuries in both innings. In those comparisons Ashwin ranks above most Indian contemperory players. Politics and jealousy by the RS VK mafia in Indian cricket.

this is a whole new level of delusion, 30 Tamil players have played test cricket for India ffs and thats from a state that has only 2 ranji trophy wins in their entire history but if you think someone was unfairly not picked for India from Tamil Nadu recently then do mention their names and who they should have been picked over. Indian fans love a moan about “why is X or Y not in their squad” but cant ever answer who should have been losing their place for that player

Ashwin isnt picked in some tests because he is competing with Jadeja in the eyes of the selectors for the sole spinner slot and due to the dynamics of the bowling attack we have. nothing to do with state politics or regional ones like you claim

 

[Groundking]

Starts a thread about Ashwin being atg or not, thread proceeds to spend half of it arguing about if Anderson is or not, never change cricketweb

Personally I think Ashwin is going to end his career as an atg. His away record is over hated imo, since 2015 he's only really been bobbins in SA.

 

[subshakerz]

Starts a thread about Ashwin being atg or not, thread proceeds to spend half of it arguing about if Anderson is or not, never change cricketweb

Personally I think Ashwin is going to end his career as an atg. His away record is over hated imo, since 2015 he's only really been bobbins in SA.

Can you give an example of a cricketer who had 3/4th of his career done, wasn't an ATG yet yet ended up as one?

 

[Arachnodouche]

You've jumped the shark, buddy. This is like being fat and getting off on running naked in a mid-day bazaar.

Oh wait...

 

[Daemon]

Can you give an example of a cricketer who had 3/4th of his career done, wasn't an ATG yet yet ended up as one?

Ashwin

 

[subshakerz]

Ashwin

Except his career ain't over.

 

[Xix2565]

I did. O Reilly and Laker did better across countries relatively than Ashwin.

In a time when conditions were friendlier for spinners. So still not much of an answer, let alone the ones I've asked for.

 

[subshakerz]

In a time when conditions were friendlier for spinners. So still not much of an answer, let alone the ones I've asked for.

There were only a few places they could play at that point. So we trust their record and their rep with premodern players.

 

[Bolo.]

Can you give an example of a cricketer who had 3/4th of his career done, wasn't an ATG yet yet ended up as one?

From a single team? Holding, Garner and Walsh.