Ashwin vs Jadeja

[Xix2565]

Adelaide wasn't a matchwinning performance as we understand it.

MCG 2020 would be close but again I think it's hard pressed to consider a threefer as decisively matchwinning.

It absolutely was. 3-57 in 34 overs to hold up an end and still take as many wickets as Bumrah, more than Shami/Ishant in a four man attack in the first innings, and 3-92 across 52.5 overs, including the winning wicket. The only reason it's not as praised is because of Pujara's runs and your lack of appreciation for these types of hauls. Same goes for the MCG Test, he had Smith on toast and still didn't give away a lot of runs while also getting a relatively new Kookaburra to use in the first innings. Went at 1.73ER across the Test.

Idiots who don't watch these games properly should see a doctor for their problems.

 

[subshakerz]

It absolutely was. 3-57 in 34 overs to hold up an end and still take as many wickets as Bumrah, more than Shami/Ishant in a four man attack in the first innings, and 3-92 across 52.5 overs, including the winning wicket. The only reason it's not as praised is because of Pujara's runs and your lack of appreciation for these types of hauls. Same goes for the MCG Test, he had Smith on toast and still didn't give away a lot of runs while also getting a relatively new Kookaburra to use in the first innings. Went at 1.73ER across the Test.

Idiots who don't watch these games properly should see a doctor for their problems.

It was a quality performances that contributed towards winning.

But calling it decisively matchwinning is really stretching it. The wickets were split three ways between him, Bumrah and Shami.

 

[Migara]

Ashwin is the better bowler. But Jadeja is way better bat than their bowling could compensate.

I was with the idea that Jadeja should bat in middle order.

 

[Xix2565]

Does Ashwin or Jadeja have anything even approaching these performances in SENA?

No they don't. Not even close. Despite over 50 games in SENA.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-in-new-zealand-2023-24-1388188/new-zealand-vs-australia-1st-test-1388226/full-scorecard

AUS vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 3rd Test at Sydney, November 30 - December 04, 1995

Get cricket scorecard of 3rd Test, AUS vs PAK, Pakistan tour of Australia 1995/96 at Sydney Cricket Ground dated November 30 - December 04, 1995.

www.espncricinfo.com

SA vs SL Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Durban, December 26 - 29, 2011

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, SA vs SL, Sri Lanka tour of South Africa 2011/12 at Kingsmead, Durban dated December 26 - 29, 2011.

www.espncricinfo.com

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-australia-2003-04-62294/australia-vs-india-4th-test-64062/full-scorecard

SA vs ENG Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Durban, December 26 - 30, 2009

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, SA vs ENG, England tour of South Africa 2009/10 at Kingsmead, Durban dated December 26 - 30, 2009.

www.espncricinfo.com

It was a quality performances that contributed towards winning.

But calling it decisively matchwinning is really stretching it. The wickets were split three ways between him, Bumrah and Shami.

Lyon notably got a pitch that aided turn and it was especially noted to be abnormal. Ashwin doesn't get these pitches, as I've noted before when comparing spinners in NZ vs other SENA nations and vs subcontinental sides. 2 of them are at Durban, among the more spin friendly SA grounds where Ashwin has never played. And the fourth is a draw on a highway where Kumble essentially statpadded because India didn't have enough penetration with the ball. How nice, 12 wickets in a Test where the attack is Kumble, Pathan, Agarkar, MKarthik and Ganguly. The other is at the same ground which before was noted for helping spin before they flattened it and then spiced it up for pacers.

Brain yourself please. It would be much better if people didn't have to read your nonsense.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Does Ashwin or Jadeja have anything even approaching these performances in SENA?

No they don't. Not even close. Despite over 50 games in SENA.

SA vs SL Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Durban, December 26 - 29, 2011

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, SA vs SL, Sri Lanka tour of South Africa 2011/12 at Kingsmead, Durban dated December 26 - 29, 2011.

www.espncricinfo.com

SA vs ENG Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Durban, December 26 - 30, 2009

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, SA vs ENG, England tour of South Africa 2009/10 at Kingsmead, Durban dated December 26 - 30, 2009.

www.espncricinfo.com

SA are cowards who stopped giving India tests at Durban precisely because they kept getting spun out by spinners there.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-in-new-zealand-2023-24-1388188/new-zealand-vs-australia-1st-test-1388226/full-scorecard

Lmao, this pitch was a total rank turner ffs. Might as well have been the Wankhede.

 

[subshakerz]

SA are cowards who stopped giving India tests at Durban precisely because they kept getting spun out by spinners there.

Sorry but Ashwin had golden opportunities to make his mark in SA, 1st test 2013/2014 and 2nd test 2018, and still flopped.

Lmao, this pitch was a total rank turner ffs. Might as well have been the Wankhede.

I can give many more examples my friend.

 

[subshakerz]

Sorry but pretending that Ashwin with 26 games in SENA and no major performance of note is just because of some massive conspiracy is simply cope.

 

[ataraxia]

Sorry but pretending that Ashwin with 26 games in SENA and no major performance of note is just because of some massive conspiracy is simply cope.

Yeah realistically it's just bad luck.

 

[Xix2565]

Sorry but pretending that Ashwin with 26 games in SENA and no major performance of note is just because of some massive conspiracy is simply cope.

You are the only one bringing up the word. I have given reasons for why the records are the way they are, reasons that generally hold up to scrutiny.

I don't know man, is this genetic? Can we test for it? I don't want to find out if I can somehow get it.

 

[subshakerz]

How many more examples do we need? I'm not even including fifers in games lost, which Ashwin doesn't even have either.

Also note that many of these performances were with strong pace attacks but that didn't stop the spinners from having a major impact, so stop bringing that excuse for Ashwin.

AUS vs ENG Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Adelaide, December 03 - 07, 2010

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, AUS vs ENG, England tour of Australia 2010/11 at Adelaide Oval dated December 03 - 07, 2010.

www.espncricinfo.com

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pakistan-tour-of-england-and-scotland-1996-61454/england-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-63718/full-scorecard

TEST: New Zealand v Pakistan at Christchurch, 8-12 Dec 1995

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/the-ashes-2023-1336037/england-vs-australia-2nd-test-1336044/full-scorecard

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah realistically it's just bad luck.

Not with a sample that big, sorry.

 

[subshakerz]

You are the only one bringing up the word. I have given reasons for why the records are the way they are, reasons that generally hold up to scrutiny.

I don't know man, is this genetic? Can we test for it? I don't want to find out if I can somehow get it.

Well these are the reasons being brought up.

Would it kill you to just admit this is a blemish in Ashwins record?

 

[capt_Luffy]

@subshakerz I feel sometimes you are awfully close to arguing something like Ponting is better in India than Root in Aus because he has a century.

 

[subshakerz]

@subshakerz I feel sometimes you are awfully close to arguing something like Ponting is better in India than Root in Aus because he has a century.

Except thats not my argument.

The entire point of my argument is get some folks to acknowledge this is a legitimate weakness in Ashwins record, which they refuse to admit.

Nobody denies that weakness with either Ponting or Root.

 

[Prince EWS]

Except thats not my argument.

The entire point of my argument is get some folks to acknowledge this is a legitimate weakness in Ashwins record, which they refuse to admit.

Nobody denies that weakness with either Ponting or Root.

Weakness. @trundler

 

[capt_Luffy]

Except thats not my argument.

The entire point of my argument is get some folks to acknowledge this is a legitimate weakness in Ashwins record, which they refuse to admit.

Nobody denies that weakness with either Ponting or Root.

A 5-fer is an arbitrary criteria. You could argue Ashwin hasn't been consistently Great in SENA or even good, I would agree. But you legit has said before that a 5-fer in a Won situation, like Lyon's in England, is better than Ashwin in Adelaide. That's dumb.

 

[subshakerz]

A 5-fer is an arbitrary criteria. You could argue Ashwin hasn't been consistently Great in SENA or even good, I would agree. But you legit has said before that a 5-fer in a Won situation, like Lyon's in England, is better than Ashwin in Adelaide. That's dumb.

I say Ashwin hasn't had individual match impact in SENA with what should be expected of a top class spinner, and the fifer milestone is only a measurement to demonstrate that.

It's not arbitrary if you have a large sample like 26 games especially for a bowler who takes a fifer every second game at home. The contrast is stark and obvious.

 

[Xix2565]

How many more examples do we need? I'm not even including fifers in games lost, which Ashwin doesn't even have either.

Also note that many of these performances were with strong pace attacks but that didn't stop the spinners from having a major impact, so stop bringing that excuse for Ashwin.

AUS vs ENG Cricket Scorecard, 2nd Test at Adelaide, December 03 - 07, 2010

Get cricket scorecard of 2nd Test, AUS vs ENG, England tour of Australia 2010/11 at Adelaide Oval dated December 03 - 07, 2010.

www.espncricinfo.com

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/pakistan-tour-of-england-and-scotland-1996-61454/england-vs-pakistan-3rd-test-63718/full-scorecard

TEST: New Zealand v Pakistan at Christchurch, 8-12 Dec 1995

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/the-ashes-2023-1336037/england-vs-australia-2nd-test-1336044/full-scorecard

You do realise pitches exist? Or did you just decide to ignore what OS posted here:

What people miss completely about these two eras is that the supposedly flat pitches of the 2000s weren't actually worse for spinners than the pitches many nations are producing these days. 2000s era away pitches were flat, yes, but also generally dry and allowed spinners to at least somewhat get into the game and play a role because matches would go the distance and spinners would get a chance to bowl on days 4/5.

In the last several years, India's away pitches have either been total green-tops where the pace bowlers are cleaning up and the spinners are reduced to bit part roles in a match that finishes on day 3 or are green-tops of the other variety that are spicy for 1-2 days and then turn into roads where no one can get any wickets. None of the 2000s spinners had to deal with these kind of conditions.

Not with a sample that big, sorry.

Luck doesn't just disappear, sorry.

Well these are the reasons being brought up.

Would it kill you to just admit this is a blemish in Ashwins record?

Does it kill you to act like a living organism with a brain and actually use said brain? I'm still waiting for this answer, you've dodged this forever you know.

Except thats not my argument.

The entire point of my argument is get some folks to acknowledge this is a legitimate weakness in Ashwins record, which they refuse to admit.

Nobody denies that weakness with either Ponting or Root.

It's exactly your argument. Again, refer above regarding usage of brain please.

I say Ashwin hasn't had individual match impact in SENA with what should be expected of a top class spinner, and the fifer milestone is only a measurement to demonstrate that.

It's not arbitrary if you have a large sample like 26 games especially for a bowler who takes a fifer every second game at home. The contrast is stark and obvious.

It's an arbitrary definition made up by you. Who doesn't use the mass of cells that's normally in the skull of human beings a lot. I'm very doubtful you can use it, so again, refer above please.

 

[subshakerz]

You do realise pitches exist? Or did you just decide to ignore what OS posted here:

I did address him several pages ago. In the same time period other spinners have been achieving great matches in SENA.

 

[Xix2565]

I did address him several pages ago. In the same time period other spinners have been achieving great matches in SENA.

You have no point here. You're just cherry picking games rather than doing a broader study while studiously ignoring the opposing points. Again, when you decide to use your brain, let me know. I've asked you this quite often and you've still not answered me properly. It almost seems like you don't have an answer as to why you make up nonsense...