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Sachin vs Viv against spin

Better Spin Player

  • Total voters
    17
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
Thala_0710 said:
Nah you didn't. You need to look deeper into the pitch conditions and quality of wkts being taken
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Dude Chandra has a higher % of tail wickets because he also takes almost a wicket a game more. You need to look more into Underwood's Home split between pre and post cover and the quality of NZ/SL he faced.
 
Thala_0710

Thala_0710

International Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Dude Chandra has a higher % of tail wickets because he also takes almost a wicket a game more. You need to look more into Underwood's Home split between pre and post cover and the quality of NZ/SL he faced.
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Yeah so the WPM point is neutralized by the tail wkt point then.
Upon removing weak teams I'm still taking Underwood because I don't believe Underwood got much friendlier pitches on avg than Chandra did. Indian pitches were spin friendly too btw, especially in the 3rd and 4th inns, where Chandra and Bedi's records are much better than the first 2 inns
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
Thala_0710 said:
Yeah so the WPM point is neutralized by the tail wkt point then.
Upon removing weak teams I'm still taking Underwood because I don't believe Underwood got much friendlier pitches on avg than Chandra did. Indian pitches were spin friendly too btw, especially in the 3rd and 4th inns, where Chandra and Bedi's records are much better than the first 2 inns
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No it isn't unless you think tail wickets are useless and Akram isn't an ATG.
Bedi is the 4th innings GoAT, and you can't be shocked that spinners did better in the 3rd and 4th Innings, especially given they were the sole bowlers almost without any pacers bowling the bulk in the 1st and 2nd innings as well.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
Thala_0710 said:
Yeah so the WPM point is neutralized by the tail wkt point then.
Upon removing weak teams I'm still taking Underwood because I don't believe Underwood got much friendlier pitches on avg than Chandra did. Indian pitches were spin friendly too btw, especially in the 3rd and 4th inns, where Chandra and Bedi's records are much better than the first 2 inns
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It's not so much so what he got on average, it's the split between the Extremely helpful ones and the defensive ones. Chandra has the same no of home wickets in 10 less games (32 vs 42). That's a huge deal.
 
Thala_0710

Thala_0710

International Captain
capt_Luffy said:
No it isn't unless you think tail wickets are useless and Akram isn't an ATG.
Bedi is the 4th innings GoAT, and you can't be shocked that spinners did better in the 3rd and 4th Innings, especially given they were the sole bowlers almost without any pacers bowling the bulk in the 1st and 2nd innings as well.
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They aren't useless, but much they're much less valuable, which is also why I rate Akram lower than I used to. Ignoring them is anyday better than ignoring Nz and Sl anyway
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

Hall of Fame Member
Thala_0710 said:
They aren't useless, but much they're much less valuable, which is also why I rate Akram lower than I used to. Ignoring them is anyday better than ignoring Nz and Sl anyway
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Huge L take. It's like when someone said McGrath has a bigger % of top order wickets than Hadlee and someone had to point out you need the tail as well and Hadlee just had a much better WPM. Same here.
 
Thala_0710

Thala_0710

International Captain
capt_Luffy said:
Huge L take. It's like when someone said McGrath has a bigger % of top order wickets than Hadlee and someone had to point out you need the tail as well and Hadlee just had a much better WPM. Same here.
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It's not though. Saying you need the tail is similar to saying that you need to get weaker batsman out anyway. I don't see how getting batsman out avg 5-15 in the tail deserves more credit than getting nz batsman out who avged in the 30s
 
sayon basak

sayon basak

International Coach
Thala_0710 said:
They aren't useless, but much they're much less valuable, which is also why I rate Akram lower than I used to. Ignoring them is anyday better than ignoring Nz and Sl anyway
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Underwood's WPM while only counting top and middle order wickets: 2.64
Chandra's WPM while counting only top and middle order wickets: 2.94
 
sayon basak

sayon basak

International Coach
Thala_0710 said:
Discount factors and match factors take that into account though. That's the whole point of those metrics
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No they do not. They're just relative performances and are heavily influenced by bowlers in his own team. Pitch conditions are just totally unrelated, and needs quite a bit more work to be judged.
 
Thala_0710

Thala_0710

International Captain
sayon basak said:
No they do not. They're just relative performances and are heavily influenced by bowlers in his own team. Pitch conditions are just totally unrelated, and needs quite a bit more work to be judged.
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That is match factor. Discount factor is irrelevant of the strength of your own team. Looking at both combined gives you a very good picture
 
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