Who's Done the Most Damage?

[subshakerz]

I rate very subs very very highly as posters but I rare Ambrose as 2nd best pacer of all time and 3rd best bowler of all time, I don't think any poster can change people's opinion on players unless they're new to cricket

Thanks.

I will say, I generally don't care about how others rank.

I mainly care about players strengths and weaknesses being recognized so we can make more informed assessments.

For example, virtually nobody was mentioning that Lara had trouble getting on top of flatter spinners like Kumble and Saqlain.

When I first brought that up, I was attacked as being anti-Lara. Now it is casually mentioned by others when it comes to Lara and spin. Or that Lara never scored a ton against Donald and 2Ws, which even Lara defenders now admit is at least a minor blemish.

What bothers me is when I being up obvious weaknesses that others refuse to recognize (Lara vs pace, Ambrose post injury, Ashwin in SENA, Kallis not accelerating). You can still rank a player the same and acknowledge they aren't perfect.

 

[honestbharani]

Salty giving a vote of thanks for changing literally no one's mind, except maybe getting on a few ignore lists.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Salty giving a vote of thanks for changing literally no one's mind, except maybe getting on a few ignore lists.

Thanks for voting for me btw. Others should take a note out of this and stop underrating me.

 

[subshakerz]

Salty giving a vote of thanks for changing literally no one's mind, except maybe getting on a few ignore lists.

Do you still think I am anti-India?

 

[Johan]

Thanks for voting for me btw. Others should take a note out of this and stop underrating me.

Weak ass Agendas, can't even attack Barry well enough.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Weak ass Agendas, can't even attack Barry well enough.

I don't need to attack Barry really, his career length does that well to him.

 

[honestbharani]

Thanks for voting for me btw. Others should take a note out of this and stop underrating me.

I have a policy on Player Comparisons to just vote for the choice I like than answer any specific question.

 

[Coronis]

I mean the dirty, dark, stinky part of our body serves a valuable role too.

And it can also be one of the most fun parts too

 

[shortpitched713]

Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Steyn
Imran
Lillee
Ambrose

The reason I have Imran over Ambrose is he was simply more proven across conditions and didn't have the issues with penetration once his pace declined after their respective injuries. Also a more skilled bowler.

Oh, if not including spinners I have Ambrose at 5. Very clearly better than Lillee on quality, regardless of Lillee's phenomenal workload.

Who do you have right below Ambrose, and do you think they are particularly close to his spot?

How solid is he at 7, in your mind?

Also, post shoulder injury Ambrose had lower workload and wicket hauls, but still excellent quality, and is meaningfully better than any Imran version outside of 80-86 .

 

[subshakerz]

Oh, if not including spinners I have Ambrose at 5. Very clearly better than Lillee on quality, regardless of Lillee's phenomenal workload.

Who do you have right below Ambrose, and do you think they are particularly close to his spot?

How solid is he at 7, in your mind?

Also, post shoulder injury Ambrose had lower workload and wicket hauls, but still excellent quality, and is meaningfully better than any Imran version outside of 80-86 .

Let's see.

Lillee is just a more skilled and simply better wicket taker than Ambrose. He takes almost an entire 1WPM more and they each have the same issues of not proven everywhere.

Imran was excellent from 80 to 88 (not 86) notably moreso than even peak Ambrose which offsets Ambrose being better outside that. Imran had a much longer career too. But I am judging them based on overall returns and not only do I think Imran is slightly more penetrative, he is clearly more proven across conditions.

It's close between him and Lillee so I can possibly switch. However, being proven across conditions to me is a core criteria for pacers hence I don't see Ambrose in the top five.

 

[Johan]

It's close between him and Lillee so I can possibly switch. However, being proven across conditions to me is a core criteria for pacers hence I don't see Ambrose in the top five.

Hadlee has the exact same issue as Ambrose's Asia issue, why is he above Lillee then

 

[capt_Luffy]

Hadlee has the exact same issue with Ambrose's Asia issue, why is he above Lillee then

Like, Lillee has all those issues x10. His WPM is Great and all, but his average legit mid asf

 

[Johan]

Like, Lillee has all those issues x10. His WPM is Great and all, but his average legit mid asf

I should make Trueman>Lillee my signature

 

[subshakerz]

Hadlee has the exact same issue as Ambrose's Asia issue, why is he above Lillee then

Hadlee has to be relooked at but he clearly has a massive output advantage over Ambrose.

 

[Johan]

Hadlee has to be relooked at but he clearly has a massive output advantage over Ambrose.

You just said that you want success accross conditions for your top 5 pacer and that's the reason you disqualified him, so

 

[subshakerz]

Like, Lillee has all those issues x10. His WPM is Great and all, but his average legit mid asf

Yeah this view of punishing a slightly higher average is divorced from actual game play.

You will almost always take a better wicket taker who is more expensive over a tight bowler who takes less wickets.

 

[subshakerz]

You just said that you want success accross conditions for your top 5 pacer and that's the reason you disqualified him, so

It goes to how we rate Hadlee in India in 1988. I am considering Steyn over Hadlee lately.

 

[Johan]

Lillee should've played Pakistan and West Indies more.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah this view of punishing a slightly higher average is divorced from actual game play.

You will almost always take a better wicket taker who is more expensive over a tight bowler who takes less wickets.

3 runs being slightly average is certainly interesting...... It's the same between Warne and Botham for eg.

 

[Johan]

Botham>Lillee