Cummins/Smith vs Lillee/Chappell vs Warne/Ponting

[Johan]

Murali just played for a trash side so got to bowl Grimmett and Fazal overs so took so many wickets smh.

 

[capt_Luffy]

If we're going by WPM, Murali had more than 5 WPM overseas.

Yep, more than Lillee career.

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Smith> Chappell >Ponting
Warne> Lillee> Cummins

I guess Chappell/ Lillee is the safer bet to work in unison

Agreed. Mostly.

Not sure Smith is clearly ahead of Chappell/Ponting yet, though he may get there.

 

[Johan]

So you think Murali is the best Ever? Takes 6 WPM, way out of reach for anyone else. Lillee's average just sucks arse. And it's interesting to see a Wasim fan uphold WPM as some holy grail.

be like Barnes, average 16, have 7 WPM.

 

[Johan]

Not sure Smith is clearly ahead of Chappell/Ponting yet, though he may get there.

don't really see how Ponting can compare with Smith..

 

[subshakerz]

If we're going by WPM, Murali had more than 5 WPM overseas.

Dude am I going to state the obvious that we look country by country when it comes to overall record and in Lillees context I was talking about one country.

Like you know this stuff man. I wasn't making a blanket statement about WPM in all contexts but why having a low WPM is an issue when compared to a high one. There is a minimum threshold an ATG should be taking wickets at.

 

[Johan]

Lillee is definitely better than Warne in Aus. Warne averaged over 30 in the 2000s there.

Is there any basis for this? Warne used to average 24 in Australia before it flattened out and take nearly 5 WPM, that's easily matching Lillee in Australia, are we saying Lillee is better because he never had to bowl in Flatstralia after 2002?

 

[subshakerz]

Is there any basis for this? Warne used to average 24 in Australia before it flattened out and take nearly 5 WPM, that's easily matching Lillee in Australia, are we saying Lillee is better because he never had to bowl in Flatstralia after 2002?

Lillee almost certainly would have done better than Warne in the 2000s. The pitches still had bounce just not lateral movement.

Look at the series Warne played in the 2000s, he basically struggled against all except the more weaker lineups.

 

[Johan]

Lillee almost certainly would have done better than Warne in the 2000s. The pitches still had bounce just not lateral movement.

Look at the series Warne played in the 2000s, he basically struggled against all except the more weaker lineups.

Warne would definitely match Lillee in 1970s and 80s, though, and have all the perks of being a spinner. Sydney in those days was an actual rank turner and generally the pitches were infinitely easier for bowling than 2000s and even 1990s. 2000s Australia had bounce but not the pace and definitely not the sideways it once had, just spoungy roads. Lillee would perform better than Warne but not all that well anyway

 

[subshakerz]

Warne would definitely match Lillee in 1970s and 80s, though, and have all the perks of being a spinner. Sydney in those days was an actual rank turner and generally the pitches were infinitely easier for bowling than 2000s and even 1990s. 2000s Australia had bounce but not the pace and definitely not the sideways it once had, just spoungy roads. Lillee would perform better than Warne but not all that well anyway

Sorry but Lillee wasn't just taking 5WPM but at a sub 50SR along with the ability to bowl long spells so I think he does better than Warne regardless of era in Aus.

 

[Johan]

Sorry but Lillee wasn't just taking 5WPM but at a sub 50SR along with the ability to bowl long spells so I think he does better than Warne regardless of era in Aus.

Warne is a spinner, naturally would get injured less than pacers, and can match that performance given the same fast wickets.

 

[subshakerz]

Warne is a spinner, naturally would get injured less than pacers, and can match that performance given the same fast wickets.

He didn't in the 90s though. Add in the 2000s and yeah I don't think he does.

Plus fast bowlers are just more effective all stages of a game.

 

[Johan]

He didn't in the 90s though. Add in the 2000s and yeah I don't think he does.

Plus fast bowlers are just more effective all stages of a game.

Warne is just a better bowler.

 

[subshakerz]

Warne is just a better bowler.

Overall but not in Aus.

 

[Johan]

Overall but not in Aus.

Cummins is also better than Lillee in Australia.

 

[subshakerz]

Cummins is also better than Lillee in Australia.

Debatable. I think pitches conditions are probably easier than ever for bowlers.

 

[Johan]

Debatable. I think pitches conditions are probably easier than ever for bowlers.

30.77 bowling average in 70s Australia vs 28.43 in 2020s, Cummins averages 19 and Lillee 24

 

[capt_Luffy]

30.77 bowling average in 70s Australia vs 28.43 in 2020s, Cummins averages 19 and Lillee 24

So not so debatable afterall huh

 

[subshakerz]

30.77 bowling average in 70s Australia vs 28.43 in 2020s, Cummins averages 19 and Lillee 24

Again I think the conditions and getting wickets is far easier since 2018 than at any time in cricket history.

 

[Johan]

Again I think the conditions and getting wickets is far easier since 2018 than at any time in cricket history.

Stats don't agree on the far part.