ok bias to old players
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How does Ravindra Jadeja compare with Kapil Dev and Ian Botham ( Tests)
- Thread starter Majestic
- Start date
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Where’s this clear gap in RPI away if he so decidedly superior?
Al Salvador
School Boy/Girl Captain
Not really, I just find Botham's resume much more impressive.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Don’t think anyone is saying Botham wasn’t a better player
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Lots of people voted that way tbf.
sayon basak
International Coach
You sure all of them were serious?
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I know at least one was.
Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
Wasn’t Botham out of the national team for periods of his career though, unlike Jadeja? Wouldn’t call that being dropped for away tours, just being dropped.
capt_Luffy
Hall of Fame Member
Like, does it makes it much better?
Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
I think we all recognise it as a part of Botham’s issues, but the discussion was about being dropped specifically for overseas tours/matches, which did happen for Jadeja and not for Botham.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
That’s even worse…
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Yes, Jadeja was dropped many matches away from home early on. It had more to do with team management thinking that he wasn't good enough, before even giving him a proper sample size. For instance, he was dropped for the 2014-15 series in Australia, without any evidence of prior failure there. He wasn't even picked first choice in 2018-19 series, but when he got selected later once Ashwin got injured, he did play well. Then did even better 2 seasons later.
Botham did have an early reputation based on an epic peak. Jadeja didn't. That played a role in his exclusion early on, but he has corrected it since.
I am not sure if Botham was even dropped later in his career, may be he just wasn't available due to fitness issues.
I agree Botham feels like a better cricketer. But you cannot ignore the fact that Jadeja keeps putting up crazy numbers. There’s no question he’s a better bat than Botham and he does average meaningfully less with the ball (although I agree this is driven by home conditions)
Overseas tours missed.
1977-78: In party in Pakistan but not selected for Tests. Played all Tests in New Zealand.
1984-85: Made himself unavailable
1987-88: Made himself unavailable. Played for Queensland instead.
1988-89: No tour. Series in India cancelled.
1989-90: Dropped
1990-91: Out of England side and not selected
Last edited:
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Botham had a crazy conversion rate (which is one issue for Jadeja - that said he’s often come in at absurd scores), but had that peak and then wasn’t anywhere near as good outside of it. Wouldn’t say Jadeja is a better bat than Botham, but he’s definitely a very reliable (maybe even more reliable) one.
For Botham the issue is his performances vs the best team of his time.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
So genuine question....
Isn't it a bigger issue to be almost useless with the ball away from home?
there have been no spinners in his time in those matches more useful
and he’s a top notch bat esp recently
averages don’t lie, they reflect reality of performance
Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
Yes I know… but that wasn’t the topic at hand..
I mean my whole point (and the original discussion) was that Jadeja was specifically dropped from away series, whereas Botham wasn’t. And just flatly comparing their % of away matches played doesn’t really reflect that.
