4th Test (Old Trafford, Manchester) - 23rd to 27th of July

[RightArmMystery]

Lifeline for Gill, put down by Dawson. Tough chance but should have taken it

 

[jaydesh]

A lot of it has to be muscle memory and the instinct to attack which is all they've ever known. You can't expect them to be conservative while also pulling off the outrageous stuff that makes them attractive. Hard to untrain that conditioning. Classical batsmen were brought up to only go after rank bad balls and respect everything else. This younger lot actively tries to manufacture shots from good bowling, hence their higher fail rate in testing conditions.

I think what the need is a good balance between the two. Attacking is not the entire reason for problems with batting these days. Batting into a shell is probably just as bad or even worse (case in point: Kraigg Brathwaite of WI). There needs to be a solid temperament about when to attack and when to respect the bowler. You had attacking players in the past as well with Sangakkara, Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar, among many others. But they also knew how to fine tune their technique to fit various match scenarios. It's not a problem to keep the runs flowing, as it should be encouraged. But it pays to put a price on your wicket as well. Because when playing the pinnacle format of the game, it's about doing your required role in the jigsaw puzzle and showing respect to the responsibility you've been given, not about impressing your crush or social media followers with a crash, bang, and wallop every time.

This is what happens when you have players chasing celebrity status and easy glory. No one talks about Joe Root's Instagram followers (assuming he's even big on social media, which he probably isn't) like they talk up Virat Kohli's. Something for India to ponder as they develop a new side.

 

[Arachnödouche2.0]

This is what happens when you have players chasing celebrity status and easy glory. No one talks about Joe Root's Instagram followers like they talk up Virat Kohli's. Something for India to ponder as they develop a new side.

Dude, at some point you have to acknowledge you're supporting a desi team . I mean, look around you (if you're in the country...or even if you're not because we're everywhere lol). The kind of austere professionalism you'd like to see is never coming out of today's India.

 

[halba]

Carse has been average all series. Bowl average now going above 30 soon(it was circa low 20s prior to the series)

 

[Ju7]

I think we put too much store in centuries. According to @Ju7 's logic, if Root scores 101 in Australia next Ashes he's an ATG. If his best effort is 99 then he only qualifies as world class.

Centuries are part of evaluating the quality of batters.Otherwise they wouldn't be upset by getting out in the 90's.

 

[Arachnödouche2.0]

Centuries are part of evaluating the quality of batters.Otherwise they wouldn't be upset by getting out in the 90's.

He has 9 fifties in 14 Tests there at an average of 35. Not ideal but not much worse than Sangakkara's 35 in India or Sachin's 40 odd in SA, to quote just two. People make out like he's Ponting-in-India level.

 

[Johan]

Ponting in India was genuinely awful and in 2001 he had the worst series any ATG Batsman ever had anywhere in any context, He is even worse than the ones where the batsmen were/was suffering from an injury, and him/Warne performing so far inferior to their conventional selves that they lost the series for Australia in my opinion, Warne in chennai for example, had Ponting made even 30-40 runs both innings combined in the final test, Australia would win that series.

 

[Spark]

I don't disagree that centuries aren't the be all and end all but Root has had ~0 actual impact in Australia. It's not really about whether he can score A Hundred, it's about whether he can actually play a match defining innings in Australia.

 

[Ju7]

Excellent batting by Rahul and Gill in tough conditions.

 

[halba]

This eng attack will fare poorly in Australia in the ashes. vs the likes of Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc and Boland, this eng attack is much, much weaker.

Their best bowler, Carse, has gone from average of 23 ish prior to the series, to nearly 30, whereas all Aus bowlers are averaging around 18-23 on current form.

 

[SkyBlue]

England haven't come close to winning even a single test match in Australia since Root made his debut

Pretty damning stat. And neither has he stood out all that much with the bat.

In 2011, India got spanked 4-0 by England in their worst overseas of tour ever but Dravid scored 4 hundreds for example.

So he's never really stood out as a batsman in Australia nor has he played a match defining 80-90 odd for that matter. His time in Australia is mostly remembered for his humiliating performance as captain and being Cummins' bunny for most of his time.

 

[Johan]

England haven't come close to winning even a single test match in Australia since Root made his debut

Pretty damning stat. And neither has he stood out all that much with the bat.

In 2011, India got spanked 4-0 by England in their worst overseas of tour ever but Dravid scored 4 hundreds for example.

So he's never really stood out as a batsman in Australia nor has he played a match defining 80-90 odd for that matter. His time in Australia is mostly remembered for his humiliating performance as captain and being Cummins' bunny for most of his time.

Mhm

And as it was refuted earlier, other ATG Batsmen have even bigger issues than that or issues that are just as damning, you're simply zooming in on Root because he's English and not from 1995.

 

[King Kane]

The Barmy Army aren't what they used to be, now they are just doing Oasis covers, they need to get some new material.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Excellent batting by Rahul and Gill in tough conditions.

The sun's gone and is now proper overcasted.

 

[King Kane]

It's good to see India showing some fight after a terrible start to this innings.

I expected it from Rahul, not so much Gill but he has transformed himself from a flashy opener to a gritty no.4 that can play a captain's knock, respect.

 

[SkyBlue]

Mhm

And as it was refuted earlier, other ATG Batsmen have even bigger issues than that or issues that are just as damning, you're simply zooming in on Root because he's English and not from 1995.

Where do you rank Root among ATG's

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

This is India's highest stand for the 3rd wicket at Old Trafford, Manchester

Previous best was 74 by Sanjay Manjrekar and Dilip Vengsarkar, 1990

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Woakes 2-34

@ashley bach

 

[Johan]

Where do you rank Root among ATG's

15 or 16, about Ponting level, below Sutcliffe/Gavaskar level

 

[RightArmMystery]

Looks a lot flatter out there now with an old ball. Not much purchase for Dawson, isn't going up and down as much for the seamers, gonna be hard work this for England. Feels like it's got draw written all over it at the minute