Allan Knott vs Ben Stokes

[Cricket Bliss]

He wasn't though, pretty confident both Murrays were rated better keeper.

Again, I kinda value spin higher.

Really ! I haven’t seen anyone rate any West Indian Wicket keeper ahead of Dujon

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Except Smith, looks pretty solid. Okay, a Top 10, kinda ranked because why not:

1. Godfrey Evans
2. Don Tallon
3. Bob Taylor
4. Ray Jennings
5. Bert Oldfield
6. Jack Blackham
7. Dick Pilling
8. Wasim Bari
9. Ian Healy
10. Allan Knott

Knott should be ahead of both Bari and Healy.
According to Tony Greig, most players believed Knott to be the greatest wicket keeper of the 70s except Knott himself and Imran, who believed in Bari. Imran’s opinion on Pakistan cricketers cannot be held highly. Even Marsh, Knott’s greatest rivalry held Knott as the best.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Except Smith, looks pretty solid. Okay, a Top 10, kinda ranked because why not:

1. Godfrey Evans
2. Don Tallon
3. Bob Taylor
4. Ray Jennings
5. Bert Oldfield
6. Jack Blackham
7. Dick Pilling
8. Wasim Bari
9. Ian Healy
10. Allan Knott

I’ve read from many sources that Latif was the their most talented wicket keeper.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

‘Alan Knott is the greatest wicket keeper I ever saw’ - Mike Selvey

‘If you’re a wicket keeper, you can’t get any better than Alan Knott’ - Kumar Sagakkara

source : Hall of Fame Alan Knott

 

[capt_Luffy]

Really ! I haven’t seen anyone rate any West Indian Wicket keeper ahead of Dujon

If nothing else, in the cricinfo XI in 2010s, Jackie Hendricks was voted as the WIndian keeper over Dujon, despite him averaging 17 while Dujon does 31. So would guess atleast he is rated as a better keeper. Think it's true for both Murrays as well, but more controversial.

Knott should be ahead of both Bari and Healy.
According to Tony Greig, most players believed Knott to be the greatest wicket keeper of the 70s except Knott himself and Imran, who believed in Bari. Imran’s opinion on Pakistan cricketers cannot be held highly. Even Marsh, Knott’s greatest rivalry held Knott as the best.

Both very debatable. Bari was less flashy than Knott, but he was safer. It's said he dropped a single catch in his 80+ Test career. And I am confident Bob Taylor from back then atleast was rated as better than Knott albeit slightly, don't think Bari is much behind.

I’ve read from many sources that Latif was the their most talented wicket keeper.

I don't think can agree. Latif was Great, but really have no reasons to be rated over Bari.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Both very debatable. Bari was less flashy than Knott, but he was safer. It's said he dropped a single catch in his 80+ Test career. And I am confident Bob Taylor from back then atleast was rated as better than Knott albeit slightly, don't think Bari is much behind.

Richie Benaud during his all time XI selection said that the greatest wicket keepers he ever saw was Godfrey Evans and Alan Knott and when along Gilchrist for his batting.

David Lloyd in an interview when asked about the greatest wicket keepers selected Knott, Russell, Healy and Taylor and narrowed it to Knott and Healy. Don’t know who he selected at the end.

Don’t think anyone other than Imran and Knott himself selected Bari ahead of Knott.

 

[kyear2]

There isn’t much difference between Taylor and Knott as wicket keepers, so either Knott could be a bit ahead or a bit lower.
According to an English Newspaper Russell wasn’t ATG against Spin… Knott was extremely successful against Underwood on Sticky wickets… and both were ATG against Fast Bowling. So Russell is definitely out of the question.
One Wicket keeper i’d add to the list ahead of Russell, Jayawardene and Foster is Dujon. Haven’t seen anyone with that sort of reflexes against fast bowling. However unproven against spin.
His batting was also not far behind Knott.

He wasn't unproven against spin, genuinely wasn't world class standing up to it.

 

[kyear2]

I don't think ranking top keepers makes sense. Like, to separate Tallon and Evans, firstly I never saw them play; and secondly even if I did, I hardly doubt that would make much of a difference. So here's a Top 50 based on vibes and rep (and some footages), unranked:

• Godfrey Evans
• Bob Taylor
• Dick Pilling
• Gregor McGregor
• George Duckworth
• Allan Knott
• Bert Strudwick
• Jack Russell
• James Foster
• John Murray
• Dick Lilley
• Ben Foakes
• Chris Read
• Les Ames
• Don Tallon
• Jack Blackham
• Bert Oldfield
• Wally Grout
• Ian Healy
• Gil Langley
• Barry Jarman
• Brian Taber
• Darren Berry
• Ron Saggers
• John McLean
• James Kelly
• Sammy Carter
• Adam Gilchrist
• Rod Marsh
• Ray Jennings
• Jock Cameron
• Denis Gamsy
• Ernest Halliwell
• Tich Smith
• Dave Richardson
• John Waite
• Naren Tamhane
• Syed Kirmani
• Wriddhiman Saha
• Khokon Sen
• Farokh Engineer
• Wasim Bari
• Rashid Latif
• Ken James
• Adam Parore
• Ian Smith
• BJ Watling
• Jackie Hendricks
• Deryck Murray
• David Murray
• Carlton Baugh
• Ivan Barrow
• Jeff Dujon
• Prasanna Jayawardene
• Herbert Fernando
• Ben Navaratne
• Guy de Alwis
• Mahesh Goonatillake
• Khaled Mashud

So yeah, 60 are here now, and 5 guys never played Test so works out perfectly.

Kudos for including David Murray, oft forgotten, he was a better keeper than his namesake or Dujon.

 

[kyear2]

I think Marsh and Ames should make it imo, I wouldn't have Gilly or Dujon either but.

Never got the impression Ames was elite with the gloves, Dujon nor Marsh were great against spin.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

He wasn't unproven against spin, genuinely wasn't world class standing up to it.

He wasn't unproven against spin, genuinely wasn't world class standing up to it.

Don’t think he was particularly bad against spin..even though there are chances of improvement like Marsh had. Even if his spin work is given zero, his keeping against the most menacing bowling is near GOAT level and kept in a country which is most difficult for wicket keeping (as per David Lloyd)

 

[kyear2]

Chatgpt's top 10 (full strength search)
1. Bob Taylor
2. Godfrey Evans
3. Alan Knott
4. Jack Russell
5. Jack Blackham
6. Don Tallon
7. Ian Smith
8. Wally Grout
9. Ian Healy
10. Prasanna Jayawardene

Oldfield seems to be the main one missing

 

[Thala_0710]

Never got the impression Ames was elite with the gloves, Dujon nor Marsh were great against spin.

I don't think ames is a competing for the top 20-25 spot, but his batting sometimes leads to his keeping being underrated imo. He sneaks into the lower end of the 50 for me.
I agree for Dujon not being up there. Marsh though I feel was a bit better to spin, so I would have him

 

[Thala_0710]

Oldfield seems to be the main one missing

Yeah I'd have him over Ian Smith

 

[kyear2]

Don’t think he was particularly bad against spin..even though there are chances of improvement like Marsh had. Even if his spin work is given zero, his keeping against the most menacing bowling is near GOAT level and kept in a country which is most difficult for wicket keeping (as per David Lloyd)

He was the best I've ever seen to pace, and no it wasn't easy. Those guys were all unique and all fast as hell.

 

[kyear2]

Yeah I'd have him over Ian Smith

Easily.

 

[peterhrt]

‘Alan Knott is the greatest wicket keeper I ever saw’ - Mike Selvey

‘If you’re a wicket keeper, you can’t get any better than Alan Knott’ - Kumar Sagakkara

source : Hall of Fame Alan Knott

Knott probably has more supporters than anyone for the title of greatest-ever wicket-keeper. The criticism of him at the time was for standing back to medium-pace bowling. He argued that he caught a higher proportion of chances standing back. The purists' counter-argument was that he made it easier for batsmen to leave their crease, get to the pitch of the ball, and avoid offering catches elsewhere.

The debate started during the 1930s with New Zealand keeper Ken James and resurfaced thirty years later with John Murray, whom Knott copied.

In 1937 Tom Reese ranked James fourth among New Zealand wicket-keepers to that time, behind Boxshall, Rowntree and AB Williams.

Wisden said this about James: As a wicketkeeper he ranked high, but, in as much as he was one of the first to make a habit of standing back to medium-pace bowling, he must be regarded as partially responsible for one of the most questionable developments in modern cricket. He excelled in dealing with the spin of W. E. Merritt his New Zealand colleague who joined him at Northampton.

This was written in 1977 when Knott was still playing.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Knott probably has more supporters than anyone for the title of greatest-ever wicket-keeper. The criticism of him at the time was for standing back to medium-pace bowling. He argued that he caught a higher proportion of chances standing back. The purists' counter-argument was that he made it easier for batsmen to leave their crease, get to the pitch of the ball, and avoid offering catches elsewhere.

The debate started during the 1930s with New Zealand keeper Ken James and resurfaced thirty years later with John Murray, whom Knott copied.

In 1937 Tom Reese ranked James fourth among New Zealand wicket-keepers to that time, behind Boxshall, Rowntree and AB Williams.

Wisden said this about James: As a wicketkeeper he ranked high, but, in as much as he was one of the first to make a habit of standing back to medium-pace bowling, he must be regarded as partially responsible for one of the most questionable developments in modern cricket. He excelled in dealing with the spin of W. E. Merritt his New Zealand colleague who joined him at Northampton.

This was written in 1977 when Knott was still playing.

Not supporting Knott here, but wouldn’t that change occur even if Knott hadn’t stood back, since the medium pacers of 1970s were like the quicks of the 1930s (bar Larwood)

 

[Johan]

 

[capt_Luffy]

Not supporting Knott here, but wouldn’t that change occur even if Knott hadn’t stood back, since the medium pacers of 1970s were like the quicks of the 1930s (bar Larwood)

I don't agree with this bowling speed accessment in the slightest.

 

[Johan]

Not supporting Knott here, but wouldn’t that change occur even if Knott hadn’t stood back, since the medium pacers of 1970s were like the quicks of the 1930s (bar Larwood)

What? So like by that logic is Wiann Mulder the same speed as Dennis Lillee?