Viv Richards vs Steve Smith

[kyear2]

List out the flaws for the following players
1. Hutton
2. Sobers
3. Viv
4. Sachin
5. Smith

Will include Lara as he's definitely in this class.

Strike rate, faced the least amount of great bowlers.

Batted too much at 6, should have bowled less and batted higher.

Focused a bit much on domination and not consistency, played to the level of competition.

Struggled the most against the great pacers of his era, was more scorer than impacter.

Peak primarily in the flat era, numbers inversely proportional to the quality of the pitches.

Inconsistent, troubled by the best pacers of era, went as far as his mind or motivation took him on a day by day basis.

 

[h_hurricane]

Will include Lara as he's definitely in this class.

Strike rate, faced the least amount of great bowlers.

Batted too much at 6, should have bowled less and batted higher.

Focused a bit much on domination and not consistency, played to the level of competition.

Struggled the most against the great pacers of his era, was more scorer than impacter.

Peak primarily in the flat era, numbers inversely proportional to the quality of the pitches.

Inconsistent, troubled by the best pacers of era, went as far as his mind or motivation took him on a day by day basis.

Among the players discussed, Viv has the best innings to fifty ratio. His issue wasn't consistency, it was more of a conversion issue from 50s to 100s.

 

[Coronis]

Viv up to the end of his peak

44 matches 3969 @ 62.01 13 tons 16 fifties (44.8% conversion)

Viv post peak

77 matches 4571 @ 43.12 11 tons 29 fifties (27.5% conversion)

For reference, Border has a 30% conversion rate. And with Root’s recent surge, Viv has the lowest career conversion rate - 34.78% - (besides Border) of any ATG batsman.

 

[DrWolverine]

Viv up to the end of his peak

44 matches 3969 @ 62.01 13 tons 16 fifties (44.8% conversion)

Viv post peak

77 matches 4571 @ 43.12 11 tons 29 fifties (27.5% conversion)

This is a big reason I find it hard to rate him BAB

 

[DrWolverine]

Will include Lara as he's definitely in this class.

I used to rate him very highly, even ahead of Viv but now seeing his away record and him not having a single century against Allan Donald, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis despite facing them for more than 15 matches is a huge hole in his record.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I used to rate him very highly, even ahead of Viv but now seeing his away record and him not having a single century against Allan Donald, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis despite facing them for more than 15 matches is a huge hole in his record.

All fair comments. Lara not scoring a hundred was a real head scratcher because he did as much vs them in ODIs. Matter of fact, he scored consecutive 100s vs each attack.

 

[subshakerz]

All fair comments. Lara not scoring a hundred was a real head scratcher because he did as much vs them in ODIs. Matter of fact, he scored consecutive 100s vs each attack.

As mentioned, Lara was fine against high quality pace until his eye issue in 94.

 

[subshakerz]

I used to rate him very highly, even ahead of Viv but now seeing his away record and him not having a single century against Allan Donald, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis despite facing them for more than 15 matches is a huge hole in his record.

Yes I'm proud of pointing that one out lol.

 

[subshakerz]

Viv up to the end of his peak

44 matches 3969 @ 62.01 13 tons 16 fifties (44.8% conversion)

Viv post peak

77 matches 4571 @ 43.12 11 tons 29 fifties (27.5% conversion)

For reference, Border has a 30% conversion rate. And with Root’s recent surge, Viv has the lowest career conversion rate - 34.78% - (besides Border) of any ATG batsman.

Ok but here is Tendulkar post peak without minnows, averages 45:

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;spanmin1=01+Jan+2003;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

And Smith post peak without minnows, averages 45

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;spanmin1=01+Oct+2019;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

So it's hardly a big difference. Only problem is century conversion. Thanks @Johan for shedding light on this.

 

[DrWolverine]

As mentioned, Lara was fine against high quality pace until his eye issue in 94.

What problem did he have?

 

[Coronis]

Ok but here is Tendulkar post peak without minnows, averages 45:

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;spanmin1=01+Jan+2003;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

And Smith post peak without minnows, averages 45

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=default;spanmin1=01+Oct+2019;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

So it's hardly a big difference. Only problem is century conversion. Thanks @Johan for shedding light on this.

That’s literally what I was pointing out

 

[subshakerz]

What problem did he have?

Pterygium, a condition causing a "skin" growth over the eyeball, which caused irritation and blurry vision.

Viv also had it in the early 80s coinciding with his dip.

 

[subshakerz]

That’s literally what I was pointing out

Yes was just comparing the averages because folks here think 43 post peak is uniquely bad or something.

 

[DrWolverine]

Smith’s post peak
48 Tests. 3298 runs. Avg of 45. 10 centuries.
Considering this is a bowling era, isn’t that good?

 

[DrWolverine]

Yes was just comparing the averages because folks here think 43 post peak is uniquely bad or something.

I don’t think it’s bad.

I am saying if your peak is just 44 Tests and post peak is 77 Tests, that is an issue.

 

[DrWolverine]

Pterygium, a condition causing a "skin" growth over the eyeball, which caused irritation and blurry vision.

That’s barely an issue man. It was not even a short case for us. Complete recovery happens within 4-6 weeks following surgery.

 

[subshakerz]

I don’t think it’s bad.

I am saying if your peak is just 44 Tests and post peak is 77 Tests, that is an issue.

Well that peak doesn't include the WSC which are 14 tests in that time.

 

[DrWolverine]

Well that peak doesn't include the WSC which are 14 tests in that time.

True.Viv is the biggest casualty of statistics.Statistically he won’t even make it to Top 10 but as a batsman I rate him Top 3.

 

[subshakerz]

That’s barely an issue man. It was not even a short case for us. Complete recovery happens within 4-6 weeks following surgery.

Lara continued to have eye issues throughout his career. And we are talking about facing 90 MPH deliveries, even a slight decrease will affect you.

 

[DrWolverine]

Well that peak doesn't include the WSC which are 14 tests in that time.

Even then, it is a small peak.

Even if you include WSC, his peak lasted like 5 years which is still quite short.