Richard Hadlee vs Curtly Ambrose

[subshakerz]

Guys I think everyone is forgetting about Steyn's GOAT case.

Low average, just like the rest of these guys. He just did it quicker.

He was far more hittable.

 

[subshakerz]

Marshall doesn't

Marshall retired earlier than usual and along with the great bowling support that time this helped his stats a bit.

 

[smash84]

That's incredible to have 6 Man of the Series awards

I wonder who are some of the other bowlers ahead of him on the list?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/most-player-of-the-series-awards-283469

This just goes on to show how amazing Hadlee is.

He has 25% more Man of the Series awards than Marshall and the guy didn't have a great batting or bowling support that the kind Marshall or McGrath had.

 

[Johan]

Marshall retired earlier than usual and along with the great bowling support that time this helped his stats a bit.

the latter point is too abstract for me to look into but the prior is true and I guess I limited my viewscope to just statistical flaws rather than looking into longevity.

 

[DrWolverine]

The invincibles were still a great team after Bradman retired. They were still at their best with Bradman.


I know it's fun to down play his accomplishments, but through the retirements, declines in form and injuries it was him powering the ship.

I have never downplayed Marshall’s achievements. I have always rated him as the best ever but he had advantages :
1. Playing for a very strong team
2. Playing alongside some of the greatest bowlers
3. A short career thus preventing his record from declining

Let’s not compare Invicibles with anyone. They were one of the best team ever because of Don Bradman.

 

[Johan]

I have never downplayed Marshall’s achievements. I have always rated him as the best ever but he had advantages :
1. Playing for a very strong team
2. Playing alongside some of the greatest bowlers
3. A short career thus preventing his record from declining

Let’s not compare Invicibles with anyone. They were one of the best team ever because of Don Bradman.

Even without Bradman, I don't think the Invincibles would be anything less than 2000s Australia

 

[Johan]

That was an early career series in Pak and a small sample.

56
44
23
19
33

series by series average against Pakistan

 

[DrWolverine]

Marshall retired earlier than usual and along with the great bowling support that time this helped his stats a bit.

Marshall retiring at 33 years is the best thing happened to his legacy. It prevented his numbers from declining and ruining his legacy.

Steyn, Donald, Marshall, Imran, Lillee etcwere bowlers who relied a lot on pace and once their speed declined they would no longer be effective.

Hadlee, McGrath, Ambrose, Akram, Garner etc did not rely so much on pace and that’s why they continued to effective even when they were older

 

[DrWolverine]

He was far more hittable.

On his best day no one was as destructive as Dale Steyn.

On his worst day no ATG bowler leaked as much as Dale Steyn.

 

[Johan]

There were two bowlers more hittable on their worst days than Steyn on his worst.

 

[DrWolverine]

There were two bowlers more hittable on their worst days than Steyn on his worst.

Among ATG bowlers?
Donald? Who else?

 

[DrWolverine]

Even without Bradman, I don't think the Invincibles would be anything less than 2000s Australia

I do not think so.

 

[Johan]

Among ATG bowlers?
Donald? Who else?

Shane Warne (in India) and Muttiah Muralitharan (in Australia).

 

[akilana]

That's the mitigating factor, that he had the best bowling and specifically pace bowling support out of the top group, which served to make things easier for him, allowed him to be more fresh for his spells, and kept his average lower than it otherwise could have been.

What’s impressive about Marco is, despite the competition in his team, his wickets per match is higher than McGrath.

 

[DrWolverine]

Shane Warne (in India) and Muttiah Muralitharan (in Australia).

Spinners?

 

[Johan]

Dale Steyn and Fred Trueman are probably the most hittable among ATG pacemen, also similar bowlers of extreme pace and swing both way and mastery on cutters too, and probably the two most destructive fast bowlers of all time.

 

[akilana]

That's incredible to have 6 Man of the Series awards

I wonder who are some of the other bowlers ahead of him on the list?

https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/most-player-of-the-series-awards-283469

surprised to see my favourite sachin so low

 

[Johan]

Akilana's Sachin hate is one of the purest things on this website.

 

[sayon basak]

Dale Steyn and Fred Trueman are probably the most hittable among ATG pacemen, also similar bowlers of extreme pace and swing both way and mastery on cutters too, and probably the two most destructive fast bowlers of all time.

Dale Steyn could not swing the ball in with the new ball.
He probably didn't need to.

Both the bowlers' stock delivery was the outswinger.

 

[Johan]

Dale Steyn could not swing the ball in with the new ball.
He probably didn't need to..

Probably could but didn't need to. I sometimes mistake his cross seamer that come in as real inswingers.

But yeah, outswinger was the stock delivery for both men.