Third name in an AT world XI

[DrWolverine]

Richard Hadlee is my first choice pick when I am about to choose a fast bowler in an ATG team.

 

[subshakerz]

It's my personal opinion in response to yours. Neither Hadlee nor Mcgrath are locks according to everyone in this thread.

But Hadlee should be.

Great we agree.

 

[reyrey]

There are some good points made by both poster in the original post, but I'd pick Gilchrist.

Another reason he merits being picked 3rd is because having such a strong bat like him down at 7 gives you more flexibility in then just picking the best bowlers, without having to worry much about if they can hold a bat or not.

 

[Bolo.]

There are some good points made by both poster in the original post, but I'd pick Gilchrist.

Another reason he merits being picked 3rd is because having such a strong bat like him down at 7 gives you more flexibility in then just picking the best bowlers, without having to worry much about if they can hold a bat or not.

I don't think the difference between Gilly and Knott is nearly as big as the difference between their batting averages suggests. Gilly played in a batting era, with home featherbeds, below an ATG lineup, and didn't have a full career.

I'd worry more if the bowlers can hold a bat.

 

[DrWolverine]

Gilchrist is the obvious pick since he is the right mix of good keeper and very good batsman.


There have been only 3 wicket keepers who have scored 2000+ runs at an average > 45.
1. One of them was a keeper in 20% of matches he played so basically he isn’t even a keeper.

2. One of them played at number 4-5 and he isn’t good enough to displace Sachin or Smith/Richards

3. One was a full time keeper, played at number 7 position and also has one of the highest strike rates ever

 

[subshakerz]

I don't think the difference between Gilly and Knott is nearly as big as the difference between their batting averages suggests. Gilly played in a batting era, with home featherbeds, below an ATG lineup, and didn't have a full career.

I'd worry more if the bowlers can hold a bat.

Fair but I think he just really clicks at no.7 as the ideal counterattacker. It's not only the runs but the way he scored.

 

[Xix2565]

Who're the other first name with Bradman here? Sobers?

? Is it Bradman/Sobers and then choose or what?

 

[Johan]

I think Knott would average ~ 40 in Gilchrist's role.

 

[subshakerz]

I think Knott would average ~ 40 in Gilchrist's role.

Why?

 

[Johan]

Why?

He already averages 42 away from home, his home conditions were tough, a lot tougher than 2000s England and it shows in his (and others) record in that era, if he played on flatter wickets at home and had 2000s away wickets his averages should shoot up pretty high

 

[capt_Luffy]

Sure but you can understand the other point of view.

if the criteria is 'pick your best pacers and pick the one best suitable for no.8' you might end up with Imran or Wasim at 8 and Marshall, McGrath or Barnes among the pacers. Which already happens.

And I would argue that variation is why Hadlee isn't in more ATG XIs. Hence why I don't call him a lock.

See, I think the disconnect is I rate Marshall-McGrath-Hadlee as practically equals. You guys don't. So I will ofcourse take him over them as he brings a very clear batting advantage to the table, especially over McGrath.

 

[reyrey]

I don't think the difference between Gilly and Knott is nearly as big as the difference between their batting averages suggests. Gilly played in a batting era, with home featherbeds, below an ATG lineup, and didn't have a full career.

I'd worry more if the bowlers can hold a bat.

Well Knott averages 41 batting at 7 (81 innings) so you do have a point.

I'd argue though that some of Gillys best innings were when the ATG great lineup above him failed. His destructive counterattacks are what made him so great, not his batting average.

 

[subshakerz]

He already averages 42 away from home, his home conditions were tough, a lot tougher than 2000s England and it shows in his (and others) record in that era, if he played on flatter wickets at home and had 2000s away wickets his averages should shoot up pretty high

Knotts average would increase but I don't think it can cover 8 points.

I think Botham and Imran would have also averaged over 40 in the 2000s too.

 

[Bolo.]

Fair but I think he just really clicks at no.7 as the ideal counterattacker. It's not only the runs but the way he scored.

It was outstanding in his team. But not as applicable in a world XI situation to me though. He played for a team strong enough to be pushing for wins almost all the time, and a high SR is better in that case. I'd assume the world XI would be playing a team of similar stenght though.

And it's nice to have a number 7 striking fast enough to avoid running out of partners often. But that's not so much of a concern for a world XI with a lower order like mine.

I'd still prefer my number 7 to be striking fast, but it's not that big a deal in this case to me.

 

[subshakerz]

It was outstanding in his team. But not as applicable in a world XI situation to me though. He played for a team strong enough to be pushing for wins almost all the time, and a high SR is better in that case. I'd assume the world XI would be playing a team of similar stenght though.

And it's nice to have a number 7 striking fast enough to avoid running out of partners often. But that's not so much of a concern for a world XI with a lower order like mine.

I'd still prefer my number 7 to be striking fast, but it's not that big a deal in this case to me.

I think it works for Aus 2000s and a World XI.

 

[Bolo.]

I think it works for Aus 2000s and a World XI.

It's a good thing in either case, but the value is extremely different for the reasons in my last post.

 

[subshakerz]

It's a good thing in either case, but the value is extremely different for the reasons in my last post.

Sure if the World XI plays a team of similar quality I can see a case for Gilly being weakened.

Ultimately Gilly is just a better batter than Knott and the keeping difference might not be a deal breaker.

 

[Bolo.]

Sure if the World XI plays a team of similar quality I can see a case for Gilly being weakened.

Ultimately Gilly is just a better batter than Knott and the keeping difference might not be a deal breaker.

Gilly is an auto pick for me- that's not an issue for debate between us.

I'm saying you will lose more on the batting by playing spuds with the bat instead of guys like Hadlee and Imran than you will by playing Knott instead of Gilly.

 

[DrWolverine]

Gilly is irreplaceable as a keeper batsman

He is my second automatic pick after Don. Not Sobers

 

[Johan]

Nah, Sobers beats Gilly, there's no replacement for Sobers similarly to Fully and he's just a better player.