Am I the only one here who rates Sunil Gavaskar slightly above Viv Richards in Test?

[Fuller Pilch]

Bradman

Hobbs
Sobers
Tendulkar
Viv
Lara
(Smith potentially)

Hutton
Gavaskar
Hammond
Chappell
Ponting
(Kohli potentially)

Kohli potentially?

Sutcliffe and Headley should be in that 2nd list. I also think Sangakkara is underrated on CW.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Kohli potentially?

I think Sangakkara is underrated on CW.

Why not. If he gets that average in England back above 40, no reason why he isn’t there.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Agreed, mostly, but I don’t think Viv in Australia which is an ATG level performance is close to Gavaskar in WI. And Sunny in SC is far superior to Richards, same way Richards is far superior to Sunny in Aus and Eng, but to me Richards is that tiny bit more proven in the SC. Gavaskar by ATG standards is unproven in Aus and NZ, and outside one series really struggled in England. I would say Viv’s 1980 performance against Pak was better given the high scoring nature of the pitches in Sunny’s tour and that Viv had to contend with Peak Imran, Qadir etc.

Agree mostly but on the last part. Sunny's first Australian tour was actually pretty good against a depleted but strong home attack in bouncy tracks. And he scored plenty in his last Australia tour as well. Scored some pretty runs in a NZ series with Hadlee also if I can recall (Viv actually is definitely worse there). And I will place the 78 series ahead if for nothing but the 221.

 

[kyear2]

Bradman

Hobbs
Sobers
Tendulkar
Viv
Lara
(Smith potentially)

Hutton
Gavaskar
Hammond
Chappell
Ponting
(Kohli potentially)

Yeah, the best after Bradman list means that there is a compelling argument that can be made that they are the 2nd best batsman of all time.

I can make an argument for Tendulkar, Sobers, Hobbs, Richards, Smith, Lara, and possibly Hutton.

Not among the best, the 2nd best of all time.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Why not. If he gets that average in England back above 40, no reason why he isn’t there.

But in the 2020s he's averaged 33.6 (54th best for those who've scored over 500 runs).

 

[trundler]

Genuinely interested as why I malign Imran, far less Gavaskar.

I would propose that having Gavaskar in that bracket is much more of a "hipster" position that not having him.

I've seen lots of best after Bradman lists on this forum over the years, can't think of more than a handful where he's on them, far less ahead of Smith, Richards, Lara, even Hutton.

Actually there were many in the 80's that even rated Barry higher, and no, that's not hyperbole.

But please tell me why I malign Sunny and Imran, I'm greatly interested to hear.

I have Sunny in the top ten and in the same tier as guys like Chappell, Ponting, Hammond etc.

You have your favourites and think they're beyond reproach, greatly magnifying any perceived lead they have over their peers. It's no surprise your favourites are usually West Indian but you do the same thing with Ponting when compared to other 2000s batsmen though less egregiously so.

For all the bleating about Gavaskar's away record I've never actually seen someone on here take it at face value and yet his detectors seem to forget the fact that Gavaskar still did better than the likes of Border and Miandad in the Caribbean taking everything into account.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Why not. If he gets that average in England back above 40, no reason why he isn’t there.

Next series in England should hopefully be on flat pitches with no Anderson and Broad. He could improve his record in NZ as well with no Southee, Boult, Wagner.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Agree mostly but on the last part. Sunny's first Australian tour was actually pretty good against a depleted but strong home attack in bouncy tracks. And he scored plenty in his last Australia tour as well. Scored some pretty runs in a NZ series with Hadlee also if I can recall (Viv actually is definitely worse there). And I will place the 78 series ahead if for nothing but the 221.

Valid point, so agree to disagree here. But for the NZ he scored a time in the match Hadlee wasn’t playing

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Next series in England should hopefully be on flat pitches with no Anderson and Broad. He could improve his record in NZ as well with no Southee, Boult, Wagner.

He’s already proved himself against Anderson etc on tough pitches. It’s a matter of formality for him to get his average above 40 there.

 

[kyear2]

You have your favourites and think they're beyond reproach, greatly magnifying any perceived lead they have over their peers. It's no surprise your favourites are usually West Indian but you do the same thing with Ponting when compared to other 2000s batsmen though less egregiously so.

For all the bleating about Gavaskar's away record I've never actually seen someone on here take it at face value and yet his detectors seem to forget the fact that Gavaskar still did better than the likes of Border and Miandad in the Caribbean taking everything into account.

Yes, all my favorites are from the Caribbean.

Name the ones I over rate, let's just compare them to CW consensus.

There's probably 7 persons on this form, not including you incidentally, that think Sunny is better than Viv. There's not an argument there.

Sobers vs Imran? that's even more lopsided. I rate Smith over Lara and Steyn over Ambrose.

So what's your argument again?

But you're favorites, can't be Pakistani's by chance are they? The reason for 75% of your posts vs me can't possibly be about Imran?

Spare me your sanctimonious hypocrisy please.

There's not a strong argument for Gavaskar as the 2nd best of all time.

If there is, why haven't we seen it, except from PFK of course.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Why not. If he gets that average in England back above 40, no reason why he isn’t there.

That is a very weirdly specific criteria

 

[trundler]

Yes, all my favorites are from the Caribbean.

Name the ones I over rate, let's just compare them to CW consensus.

There's probably 7 persons on this form, not including you incidentally, that think Sunny is better than Viv. There's not an argument there.

Sobers vs Imran? that's even more lopsided. I rate Smith over Lara and Steyn over Ambrose.

So what's your argument again?

But you're favorites, can't be Pakistani's by chance are they? The reason for 75% of your posts vs me can't possibly be about Imran?

Spare me your sanctimonious hypocrisy please.

There's not a strong argument for Gavaskar as the 2nd best of all time.

If there is, why haven't we seen it, except from PFK of course.

Your reading comprehension is somehow worse than your one-eyedness.

The bolded is precisely my point about your annoying tunnel vision.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Valid point, so agree to disagree here. But for the NZ he scored a time in the match Hadlee wasn’t playing

Hadlee played two matches. Gavaskar did pretty well in the first one. Hadlee dog walked through Indian batting in the 2nd innings; but Gavaskar was absent hurt.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes, all my favorites are from the Caribbean.

Name the ones I over rate, let's just compare them to CW consensus.

There's probably 7 persons on this form, not including you incidentally, that think Sunny is better than Viv. There's not an argument there.

Sobers vs Imran? that's even more lopsided. I rate Smith over Lara and Steyn over Ambrose.

So what's your argument again?

But you're favorites, can't be Pakistani's by chance are they? The reason for 75% of your posts vs me can't possibly be about Imran?

Spare me your sanctimonious hypocrisy please.

There's not a strong argument for Gavaskar as the 2nd best of all time.

If there is, why haven't we seen it, except from PFK of course.

Incidentally, I haven't seen one for Viv from anyone really.

 

[Slifer]

Valid point, so agree to disagree here. But for the NZ he scored a time in the match Hadlee wasn’t playing

Exactly. The one match Sunil actually scored a hundred in NZ, Hadlee was absent.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Exactly. The one match Sunil actually scored a hundred in NZ, Hadlee was absent.

He did scored a 2nd innings 70 in the next match though, arguably a better innings and Hadlee played that one.

 

[shortpitched713]

Bradman

Hobbs
Sobers
Tendulkar
Viv
Lara
(Smith potentially)

Hutton
Gavaskar
Hammond
Chappell
Ponting
(Kohli potentially)

Good list, except your second bat is roughly as good as Shakib al Hasan.

 

[kyear2]

Incidentally, I haven't seen one for Viv from anyone really.

Really?

I can quote at least 3 posts in this or the other ongoing thread with persons saying that Viv was the best batsman they've ever seen, with the accompanying arguments.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Really?

I can quote at least 3 posts in this or the other ongoing thread with persons saying that Viv was the best batsman they've ever seen, with the accompanying arguments.

I haven't really seen any list of batsmen here with him ahead of Tendulkar, Hobbs, Sobers and Lara (I mean all of them). Best batsman seen is a different question really. Smith is the best batsman who has played in my time, but VK is the better one to watch in action. In shot, haven't read an argument for him to be no 2.

 

[Coronis]

Kohli potentially?

Sutcliffe and Headley should be in that 2nd list. I also think Sangakkara is underrated on CW.

Kohli still has a ways to go before he breaks into a top 20 yet alone a top 15. And unlike Williamson (particularly) and Root, his career is on a downward trajectory.