Smith SA (away) or Kohli's India (home): Which had the more impressive record?

[centurymaker]

India has been winning the home-away battle in the last 4 years. If you want to check the last 7-8 years even then it's in India's favor.

V Aus - won all 4 series
V Eng - won all at home, drew & lost away
V NZ - won at home, lost away.
V SA - won at home, drew & lost away

4-0 v Aus
2.5-1.5 v Eng
2.5-1.5 v SA
1-1 v NZ

 

[honestbharani]

Careful.. u breaking down hatred born out of jealousy with logic?

 

[OverratedSanity]

How many series did they play without Jadeja and Ashwin together? That would be the equivalent of no McWarne.

Damn, you take away Mcgrath and Warne and Australia can't even beat mediocre India and NZ sides. Sounds like they were pretty overrated. We replace bumrah/shami Ashwin/Jadeja with net bowlers and still win at the Gabba.

 

[subshakerz]

Damn, you take away Mcgrath and Warne and Australia can't even beat mediocre India and NZ sides. Sounds like they were pretty overrated. We replace bumrah/shami Ashwin/Jadeja with net bowlers and still win at the Gabba.

NZ was a rain issue.

 

[subshakerz]

Australia doesn't gets brownie points from me neither for not having both of their frontliners nor for having a decent reserve. Like, I can assure you, even if Ashwin and Jadeja doesn't plays in a series, with the likes of Bumrah, Shami, Kuldeep, Axar, etc and will still most likely win.

Really? So India for sure beat Australia in 2017 without Ash and Jadeja? You don't know that.

 

[subshakerz]

India has been winning the home-away battle in the last 4 years. If you want to check the last 7-8 years even then it's in India's favor.

V Aus - won all 4 series
V Eng - won all at home, drew & lost away
V NZ - won at home, lost away.
V SA - won at home, drew & lost away

4-0 v Aus
2.5-1.5 v Eng
2.5-1.5 v SA
1-1 v NZ

Of course, it's still cherrypicking since Kohli started in 2015.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Really? So India for sure beat Australia in 2017 without Ash and Jadeja? You don't know that.

You know you are using a stupid argument, right?? Or you're so deep in All Time fantasies that you simply forgot that players missing series for injuries and such is a natural thing??? They missed a few players doesn't nullify that they didn't won. According to you anyone could had been deadly on those 2017 tracks; so surely Kuldeep, Axar and Jayant Yadav would had been enough?

 

[subshakerz]

You know you are using a stupid argument, right?? Or you're so deep in All Time fantasies that you simply forgot that players missing series for injuries and such is a natural thing??? They missed a few players doesn't nullify that they didn't won. According to you anyone could had been deadly on those 2017 tracks; so surely Kuldeep, Axar and Jayant Yadav would had been enough?

Did Kuldeep or Axar even debut by then? Now you're just being disingenuous.

If you want me to believe that a drawn series where Australia had both their best bowlers missing is the reason they are somehow easier to beat at home then fine, despite India losing more tests at home, go with that.

Let's please go back to main topic of the thread.

 

[subshakerz]

Umm no, right after SA's away wins, Australia again beat SA in SA in 2013.

England too beat SA in SA in the return series in 2015.

So it's like India winning away in Pakistan and then losing the return home series in India. And then India winning in SL against Murali and then somehow losing the return series in India.

No, it wasn't right after. Australia won in 2014 once Kallis retired. You just chose to clip an earlier period to make SA look worse. Anyways...

Again, what is the topic of this thread? It assumes SA were weaker than India at home and India weaker away. I don't see the point of really.debating this.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Did Kuldeep or Axar even debut by then? Now you're just being disingenuous.

If you want me to believe that a drawn series where Australia had both their best bowlers missing is the reason they are somehow easier to beat at home then fine, despite India losing more tests at home, go with that.

Let's please go back to main topic of the thread.

Yes, Kuldeep debuted in 2017 and was already an ODI champ and Axar was Jadeja's back-up since 2014.
And nope, I am not arguing if they play again who will win, I am arguing one team has won 17 series in a row against another's 8. Not hyperbole, but history. Bowlers missing is a very good alibi, but historically it's just that; an alibi.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes, Kuldeep debuted in 2017 and was already an ODI champ and Axar was Jadeja's back-up since 2014.
And nope, I am not arguing if they play again who will win, I am arguing one team has won 17 series in a row against another's 8. Not hyperbole, but history. Bowlers missing is a very good alibi, but historically it's just that; an alibi.

Axar debuted in 2021.

Right so McWarne missing is an alibi. Got it. You're so desperate to claim that series they missed because you know without it, Australia were otherwise simply superior to India at home.

If it means so much to you and makes you feel better then take it that title of best home team. Now please discuss the actual topic of India at home vs SA away.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Axar debuted in 2021.

Right so McWarne missing is an alibi. Got it. You're so desperate to claim that series they missed because you know without it, Australia were otherwise simply superior to India at home.

If it means so much to you and makes you feel better then take it that title of best home team. Now please discuss the actual topic of India at home vs SA away.

Dude, why so defensive? I just simply said I am not talking about hyperbole here but what happened and everyone knows that comparing those two bowling units with McWarne would be a huge joke. I am not doing that, simply stating a fact that you missing your Top 2 bowlers is unlucky, very unlucky; but history don't care about luck.

 

[subshakerz]

Dude, why so defensive? I just simply said I am not talking about hyperbole here but what happened and everyone knows that comparing those two bowling units with McWarne would be a huge joke. I am not doing that, simply stating a fact that you missing your Top 2 bowlers is unlucky, very unlucky; but history don't care about luck.

I am not defensive I wanted to get back to the main topic.

You lot are defensive because it's suggested that ATG WI and Aus sides might be better at home than holy India. Which is a completely plausible opinion since one of them lost a single test in their prime and the other had a better win rate. But it's like India's home record is so sacred that such a suggestion triggers you all.

But again, it is sidetracking from the main conversation.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I am not defensive I wanted to get back to the main topic.

You lot are defensive because it's suggested that ATG WI and Aus sides might be better at home than holy India. Which is a completely plausible opinion since one of them lost a single test in their prime and the other had a better win rate. But it's like India's home record is so sacred that such a suggestion triggers you all.

But again, it is sidetracking from the main conversation.

I just brought history, that historically India has done better. You were akin on proving that two Australian series doesn't count. Anyways, on to the topic; it's a close one imo.

 

[subshakerz]

I just brought history, that historically India has done better. You were akin on proving that two Australian series doesn't count. Anyways, on to the topic; it's a close one imo.

Fair enough, thanks.

 

[PaulLennon]

India have been dominant at home. That isn't necessarily heroic though, where they battle tough odds. Instead they have started every test as favorites. You can't have your cake and eat it too.



That's all good. Though should be mentioned that SA side was missing Smith and Kallis who were critical for their reign away. Steyn also broke down.

Well that doesn't stop people from including the 2014 SL series w/o Kallis, Smith to include SL away win. And that team was the same as the one who played in Ind in 2015.

Smith/Kallis never won in SL. If you stop at Smith/Kallis that means no SL win.

 

[PaulLennon]

In the period in question, India lost in SA in 2018 and 2022, lost heavily in England in 2018 and were whitewashed in NZ in 2020. Also lost two WTC finals. So they also have a spotty away record.

WTC finals were not a thing during SA's time so they don't count.

 

[subshakerz]

Well that doesn't stop people from including the 2014 SL series w/o Kallis, Smith to include SL away win. And that team was the same as the one who played in Ind in 2015.

Smith/Kallis never won in SL. If you stop at Smith/Kallis that means no SL win.

We can debate that, but we can't debate that not having Steyn basically is not the same SA side. And Steyn was injured in 2015 in India.

 

[subshakerz]

WTC finals were not a thing during SA's time so they don't count.

They count against India's away record, we cant ignore them. Anyways let's get back to the real topic.

 

[PaulLennon]

They count against India's away record, we cant ignore them. Anyways let's get back to the real topic.

No you can. That SA would have also lost hypothetical home WTC finals against Aus/Eng.