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*Official* England in India 2023/24 #CryMoreTour
- Thread starter mackembhoy
- Start date
Spark
Global Moderator
I think Kohli et al would have scored bucketloads against these bowlers on these pitches tbh, and Pujara would have done alright too (he seemed to be in good nick of late). Not having this idea that this batting lineup is somehow leagues better and that you can just ignore the massive difference in the pitches, nor that England's spin bowling was especially good.
Spark
Global Moderator
Like I get why people are excited about these new players - Jaiswal especially - anyone would be, but I really think that aside from that 4th game, India were if really profligate with the bat through much of the series, even in that last game they had the platform to put on a hilarious score. Some of those 400-odd totals could and should have been converted into 500+, 600+ totals in years gone by. That 2017 series against comes to mind as an example.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Batting underperformed due to the inexperience.
Spark
Global Moderator
I mean sure, fine, but that's not the kind of thing you say if you've wowed everyone.
I seem to be alone with this but I just wasn't that impressed with the English spinners. I said after the second game (I think) that England's obvious issue was their bowling, not their batting (though that middle order underperformed too) and I stand by that. They've got potential, sure, I guess, that will probably never developed because they'll never get games and the counties have nfi what to do with spinners, but aside from that 3rd Test scrap in the first innings I don't think it was that impressive an achievement to cart them around all over the park. They bowled so many loose balls that all the Indian batsmen had to do was show a modicum of patience and they'd inevitably get loads of scoring opportunities.
Spark
Global Moderator
Like England really should have been annihilated in that first game, that first innings bowling was so putrid that I can imagine Kohli and Pujara going spare watching on TV and wondering what god they angered in a previous life that they had to contend with very good spinners on absolute minefields in the last few years while this lot get to dine out on full tosses and long hops delivered every single over. And it didn't improve that much through the series.
ashley bach
International Captain
Surely Jimmy retires after the coming home series and just squeaks past Warne?
#Play Jimmy at the Oval
#Play Jimmy at the Oval
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Nope.. I still think Rehan has more upside than Basheer or Hartley.
Shri
Mr. Glass
this is why i thought murphy was way better than hartley or bashir
Spark
Global Moderator
Honestly this is so obvious to me that I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading all this "England would have done so well last year!" takes as if these bowlers wouldn't have sent down plenty of pies then too - and on those pitches, it wouldn't have taken many for India to put on an insurmountable score. A bloke like Jaiswal could win the game in thirty minutes of smacking full tosses.
Spark
Global Moderator
Unless they actually get picked in Test matches in England this is all academic. You can't make a Test career out of being an away subcontinent tour specialist. Just ask Glenn Maxwell.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Rehan shud be their #1 spinner IMO
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Particularly Pujara as he got dropped very swiftly because of poor performances at home coming on bunsens.. Now that they had decided to play on flat decks, team management should have definitely recalled him especially once they found out that babysitter chkohli wasn't going to play any part in the series on top of Rahul getting injured. Jadeja too looked doubtful at one point.
So it made no sense to keep carrying a dead weight middle order, trying Patidar, Iyer and co.. when they had a much better batsman playing ranji who would eat these spinners up on the decks served.
India was in a position to score 550+ in all except the 4th test. But failed to completely capitalise each time.
And I agree that these spinners aren't likely to turn into anything special. Bashir has some potential but he is an offspinner turning into RHB so it's even harder for him.
Spark
Global Moderator
It's worth noting though that none of those newer batsman got big scores either, Jaiswal excepted. Sure they looked good belting around the crap they were regularly served but they were also pretty profligate. Jurel's knock in the 4th dig was excellent ofc, but Sarfaraz's shot in the last game was somewhat emblematic - just a gift, really.
Socerer 01
International Captain
jeez jesus how old are you
Even if Bharat was still playing,we may have not seen that excellent comeback from India in ranchi.
Jaiswal was aggressive from the get go, pujara wouldn't score runs at Jaiswals pace. Remember that no Indian batter made above 34 when Jaiswal scored his first double ton.
Kuldeep was ridiculously good and an upgrade from axar who got belted 2nd innings vizag
At the very least, the series could have ended 3-2 India instead.
Jaiswal was aggressive from the get go, pujara wouldn't score runs at Jaiswals pace. Remember that no Indian batter made above 34 when Jaiswal scored his first double ton.
Kuldeep was ridiculously good and an upgrade from axar who got belted 2nd innings vizag
At the very least, the series could have ended 3-2 India instead.
Spark
Global Moderator
And if India bat - and catch - with a modicum of sense on Days 2 and 3 then England get absolutely pasted off the surface of the planet in the first game. So it cuts both ways. You can't just write off the fact that the other three games were extremely one-sided affairs and that England consistently struggled to take twenty wickets throughout the series (as often or not they were simply gifted).
Arachnodouche
International Captain
Even Rajkot which has gone down as this big lost opportunity for the English, amplified by Root's dismissal, but even considering the events of the previous evening , a 230-run deficit starting Day 3 in India is huge and has the game well and truly in the balance. India may have not had Ashwin but they were still functioning with a "full" complement of bowlers if you go by the conventional four-bowler theory. Also this Indian setup, deflated as it may look at any given time, rarely shows up to roll over and die the next day. Admittedly, this is all hindsight and we were all sort of resigned on Day 2, but it's been the trend for a number of years now.