Ravichandra Ashwin vs Rahul Dravid

[ma1978]

ATGs are ATG XI material, or at least worthy to consider for it. Dravid isn't that.

so you wouldon’t consider folks like Javed Miandad, Alan Border, George Headley,Ricky Ponting, Sangakkara etc ATGs. That’s an interesting take.
Because really there at most 25 people in real consideration for an AT XI

 

[subshakerz]

so you wouldon’t consider folks like Javed Miandad, Alan Border, George Headley,Ricky Ponting, Sangakkara etc ATGs. That’s an interesting take.
Because really there at most 25 people in real consideration for an AT XI

Yes so the names themselves we can debate but the pool size should be around that many, yes. Around 15 or so bats, 10 pacers, a handful of ARs, spinners and keepers. That's it.

ATG is a very select category.

Ponting, Headley and maybe Border may make it for me. If a regular great like Miandad gets in, ATG loses its weight. Has to be someone who in their own career people see that guy as a Hall of Famer comparable with the best names of any era.

Dravid wasn't getting compared to greats like Chappell and Viv in his playing days. He was a regular national great.

 

[ma1978]

There are 3000 players who have played test cricket, if cricket had a real hall of fame, it would have 1.5%-2.0%

Yes so the names themselves we can debate but the pool size should be around that many, yes. Around 15 or so bats, 10 pacers, a handful of ARs, spinners and keepers. That's it.

ATG is a very select category.

Ponting, Headley and maybe Border may make it for me. If a regular great like Miandad gets in, ATG loses its weight. Has to be someone who in their own career people see that guy as a Hall of Famer comparable with the best names of any era.

Dravid wasn't getting compared to greats like Chappell and Viv in his playing days. He was a regular national great.

I just have a different view on this. I extend ATG beyond the too 30 cricketers of all time (that’s very much the inner circle of ATGs).

 

[Silver Silva]

Ashwin has won more games for India imo so he gets my vote.

 

[ma1978]

Ashwin has won more games for India imo so he gets my vote.

fewer important games though. Literally every important win of the 2000s (a transformational time for Indian cricket), Dravid played a critical role

 

[honestbharani]

saltshakerz s salty and false tirades are not even funny anymore.

 

[subshakerz]

saltshakerz s salty and false tirades are not even funny anymore.

You found me funny? Aw, thanks.

 

[Coronis]

There are 3000 players who have played test cricket, if cricket had a real hall of fame, it would have 1.5%-2.0%


I just have a different view on this. I extend ATG beyond the too 30 cricketers of all time (that’s very much the inner circle of ATGs).

iirc i think Bball is 3% and people think its way too inclusive, I think Baseball is about 1.5% as is NFL.

Extrapolating from this.. around 45-90 players should be considered in that same vein.

 

[shortpitched713]

Where do you rank Dravid in ATG bats?

I'd rank him similar to Ashwin, probably about 13 among modern bats. But there's more uniformity in the quality of the top bats, a bit more drop off from the very top bowlers. That's why I'd still go Dravid over Ashwin.

 

[shortpitched713]

you rate Ashwin as a better bowler than Warne right?

Right now, by a small margin if Ashwin doesn't have any meaningful performance reduction in the remainder of his career. And I'm a bit less settled and picky on the 8-18ish in my list, as compared to what I think are a pretty settled and separated top 5-7. So I don't really argue much if someone rates Lillee over Philander, or Warne over Ashwin.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Not as high as I'd like. I think he's up there with Warne.

 

[_00_deathscar]

There are 3000 players who have played test cricket, if cricket had a real hall of fame, it would have 1.5%-2.0%


I just have a different view on this. I extend ATG beyond the too 30 cricketers of all time (that’s very much the inner circle of ATGs).

What’s the number who played 10+ tests? Cos that takes out people like Kunal Nair (presumably).

 

[ma1978]

What’s the number who played 10+ tests? Cos that takes out people like Kunal Nair (presumably).

not easy to figure out, but the baseball (which is the most storied and best regarded hall of fame) is c1.5% of people who played a single game, and note by definition baseball rosters have 25 people and there are 20+ teams playing 162 games a year, so test cricketers are inherently a more selective bunch.

45 people would be 1.5% and that feels small, 60-70 feels right

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Dravid was a good fielder. Ashwin wasn't.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes so the names themselves we can debate but the pool size should be around that many, yes. Around 15 or so bats, 10 pacers, a handful of ARs, spinners and keepers. That's it.

ATG is a very select category.

Ponting, Headley and maybe Border may make it for me. If a regular great like Miandad gets in, ATG loses its weight. Has to be someone who in their own career people see that guy as a Hall of Famer comparable with the best names of any era.

Dravid wasn't getting compared to greats like Chappell and Viv in his playing days. He was a regular national great.

Dravid>Ponting..... He could play both spin and lateral movement unlike Ponting

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ashwin easily in Asia and overall too but it's more because of condition boosting his record.

The only place his average is above 40 are Australia and South Africa; well Warne also averaged above 40 in India and almost 40 in West Indies.......

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Dravid>Ponting..... He could play both spin and lateral movement unlike Ponting

There’s reasons for rating Ponting higher as well but they are very close and in the same tier. Makes no sense to rate only one of them as ATG