AB de Villiers vs Younis Khan

[trundler]

Younis was much more than a humble stalwart. The fact that he never got his dues does not change the fact that he was a total boss for a very long time.

It is also fundamentally harder to have a "better cross conditions record" batting at 3/4 than 5.

 

[Bolo.]

It is also fundamentally harder to have a "better cross conditions record" batting at 3/4 than 5.

Definitely, and if it was as simple as this, Younis should be winning comfortably.

 

[trundler]

Well, clearly the voters are wrong.

 

[BazBall21]

It is also fundamentally harder to have a "better cross conditions record" batting at 3/4 than 5.

Fair point. Trusting eye test might seem flimsy but I think De Villiers had the skill to not suffer serious resume downgrades if he batted higher. And to my knowledge he didn't refuse to bat higher up like Shiv.

 

[ZK$]

Skill and talent is nice to have, but what you actually achieve is what matters.

 

[BazBall21]

Skill and talent is nice to have, but what you actually achieve is what matters.

My vote is based on resume too, but the batting position thing away from home is a fair point.

 

[Bolo.]

Fair point. Trusting eye test might seem flimsy but I think De Villiers had the skill to not suffer serious resume downgrades if he batted higher. And to my knowledge he didn't refuse to bat higher up like Shiv.

He could have played higher, and he would not have struggled in his long peak. He would not have been as good though. Batting up the order (especially when you are a player like him) is tougher.

He definitely did not refuse to bat higher up Shiv style. He played his first couple of RSA years as an opener, cos they told him he had to to get into the side. Was never an opener, even at FC level. Just got shoehorned in. Later in his career, there was no need need to move him up, even when he was the best bat. Was great at everything you ask of a lower middle player. Stonewalling for draws, going ballistic after a platform, shepparding the tail...etc.

 

[BazBall21]

He could have played higher, and he would not have struggled in his long peak. He would not have been as good though. Batting up the order (especially when you are a player like him) is tougher.

He definitely did not refuse to bat higher up Shiv style. He played his first couple of RSA years as an opener, cos they told him he had to to get into the side. Was never an opener, even at FC level. Just got shoehorned in. Later in his career, there was no need need to move him up, even when he was the best bat. Was great at everything you ask of a lower middle player. Stonewalling for draws, going ballistic after a platform, shepparding the tail...etc.

Depends. He actually had a great technique. I would say a KP for instance or more obviously a Sehwag (other attacking bats) weren't suited down to the ground at negotiating movement but ABD was very flexible. I tend to agree that in virtually every case a batter will see his results fall off if he bats higher up, I just don't think the damage would have been anything major in his case.

 

[Bolo.]

Depends. He actually had a great technique. I would say a KP for instance or more obviously a Sehwag (other attacking bats) weren't suited down to the ground at negotiating movement but ABD was very flexible. I tend to agree that in virtually every case a batter will see his results fall off if he bats higher up, I just don't think the damage would have been anything major in his case.

Agreed, not major damage. He was very adaptable. But I don't think he would maintain his 58 average from 5/6 If you pushed him up to 3/4 though. Not even sure he would have matched Younis's 52ish in those positions. Very possible, but If you give me even money, I'm betting against it.

 

[BazBall21]

Agreed, not major damage. He was very adaptable. But I don't think he would maintain his 58 average from 5/6 If you pushed him up to 3/4 though. Not even sure he would have matched Younis's 52ish in those positions. Very possible, but If you give me even money, I'm betting against it.

Maybe but it's a bit harder to do so when playing half your tests in South Africa purely for comparisons sake. Amla deserved a 50avg but a combination of tough home conditions and finishing in the 'pace pandemic' scuppered it.

 

[Bolo.]

Maybe but it's a bit harder to do so when playing half your tests in South Africa purely for comparisons sake. Amla deserved a 50avg but a combination of tough home conditions and finishing in the 'pace pandemic' scuppered it.

No disagreement there. I mentioned conditions in a number of earlier posts

 

[subshakerz]

ABD's numbers are good enough but they don't do justice to his abilities.

The best player of pace I have seen. And then an elite player of spin.

Capable of the fastest hundreds and slowest blockathons.

Feared and respected by all bowlers.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

ABD's numbers are good enough but they don't do justice to his abilities.

The best player of pace I have seen. And then an elite player of spin.

Capable of the fastest hundreds and slowest blockathons.

Feared and respected by all bowlers.

ABD was like Wasim. Could have been so much but rarely delivered.

 

[Coronis]

Capable of the fastest hundreds and slowest blockathons.

Just like Shiv.

 

[subshakerz]

Just like Shiv.

Yeah but with ABD he didn't seem to be trying hard at all. It seemed totally natural. Rarely rushed or mistiming.

His knock against peak Mitch in 2014, when he was playing him comfortably while the rest were ducking for their lives, truly showed this guy was on another planet.

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's a tough one, Younis never struck me as a particularly good player in more typical English or Australian conditions despite having a good record in both countries (got some great hundreds on the more subcontinental tracks in both countries). Godlike player of spin though and think he was more consistent overall than de Villiers, who was second or third fiddle to Kallis and Amla for most of his career. Younis didn't take a weak sabbatical when in poor form like AB did too.

 

[subshakerz]

It's a tough one, Younis never struck me as a particularly good player in more typical English or Australian conditions despite having a good record in both countries (got some great hundreds on the more subcontinental tracks in both countries). Godlike player of spin though and think he was more consistent overall than de Villiers, who was second or third fiddle to Kallis and Amla for most of his career. Younis didn't take a weak sabbatical when in poor form like AB did too.

He only seemed second or third fiddle because he batted deeper.

He took his break 2016/17 from but 2008 to 2015 during SA's golden era he was consistently high scoring pretty much everywhere. Double tons in the SC, fourth inning chase tons, fourth innings blockathons, standing ahead of all other SA bats in India on minefields or against Johnson, he did it all.

Statistically no weaknesses in his record too and no padding from minnows.

 

[BazBall21]

De Villiers averages more in low-scoring tests than Kallis, Amla and Smith. But probably had an advantage because of his batting position.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

De Villiers averages more in low-scoring tests than Kallis, Amla and Smith. But probably had an advantage because of his batting position.

Where do you get these stats?

 

[BazBall21]

Where do you get these stats?

I have also calculated them but Raz0r6ack covered everyone incl those guys.