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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The reason stephen is so adamant over Gilchirst in the first place is because he doesn't want to let go of Bevan.

Because if you want a gung-ho attacking opener as Tendulkar's partner (as Gilly certainly is compared to Rohit), then Jayasuriya and Bairstow and Warner and Sehwag are just as good.

It's just that stephen won't pick them otherwise he will have to pick Dhoni as wk and Bevan has to be set aside.
 

Logan

U19 Captain
Statistically, Allan Donald was a better bowler in ODIs than Glen McGrath.

McGrath playing for arguably the greatest team in history boosted his image while Donald was plain unlucky to have played for a lesser side which was captained by a match fixer.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
The reason stephen is so adamant over Gilchirst in the first place is because he doesn't want to let go of Bevan.

Because if you want a gung-ho attacking opener as Tendulkar's partner (as Gilly certainly is compared to Rohit), then Jayasuriya and Bairstow and Warner and Sehwag are just as good.

It's just that stephen won't pick them otherwise he will have to pick Dhoni as wk and Bevan has to be set aside.
Maybe Bairstow can keep. :p
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
The reason stephen is so adamant over Gilchirst in the first place is because he doesn't want to let go of Bevan.

Because if you want a gung-ho attacking opener as Tendulkar's partner (as Gilly certainly is compared to Rohit), then Jayasuriya and Bairstow and Warner and Sehwag are just as good.

It's just that stephen won't pick them otherwise he will have to pick Dhoni as wk and Bevan has to be set aside.
Yeah, Bevan would be the first player in his team. Warne would be the second and the remaining 9 players are chosen in accordance with how they complement these two.
 

Logan

U19 Captain
The reason stephen is so adamant over Gilchirst in the first place is because he doesn't want to let go of Bevan.

Because if you want a gung-ho attacking opener as Tendulkar's partner (as Gilly certainly is compared to Rohit), then Jayasuriya and Bairstow and Warner and Sehwag are just as good.

It's just that stephen won't pick them otherwise he will have to pick Dhoni as wk and Bevan has to be set aside.
I believe Dhoni > Bevan but Bevan > Dhoni is also reasonable.

But Gilchrist > Rohit is illogical IMO.
 

OverratedSanity

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Yes when it matters.
You ****s always mythologize losing performances in tests like Warne in the 05 Ashes getting destroyed by getting deposited into the stands repeatedly by Pietersen when it truly mattered or Smith bottling it in India in 2017 when he played on to a 130 kph half tracker from the little bhuvi Kumar with the series on the line. It's absolute nonsense so shut the **** up you have no idea what you're talking about.
 

Burgey

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Statistically, Allan Donald was a better bowler in ODIs than Glen McGrath.

McGrath playing for arguably the greatest team in history boosted his image while Donald was plain unlucky to have played for a lesser side which was captained by a match fixer.
They were in part the greatest team in history because of him. Just got the big blokes out when it mattered. Lara 99, Tendulkar 03. Lined them up, called them out and just got it done.
 

Burgey

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You ****s always mythologize losing performances in tests like Warne in the 05 Ashes getting destroyed by getting deposited into the stands repeatedly by Pietersen when it truly mattered or Smith bottling it in India in 2017 when he played on to a 130 kph half tracker from the little bhuvi Kumar with the series on the line. It's absolute nonsense so shut the **** up you have no idea what you're talking about.
Who hurt you mate? What’s wrong?
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The only assertions that have been silly in this thread have been yours. And what the hell is this era adjusted? Do you mean your Aussie bias adjusted as I am sure that is just a number you are picking off from nowhere. MSD > Bevan as an ODI batsman. Gilly does not make it to an ATG ODI XI and Bevan is very close to missing out because of the balance any opener + Dhoni can bring to the table. Also, are we to just forget that while Gilly was an excellent keeper, Dhoni has him beat as an ODI keeper, especially given there will be about 10-15 overs of spin from the ATG ODI XI bowling line up?
Dhoni is definitely not better than Bevan as an ODI batsman. Bevan accomplished as much as Dhoni statistically in a far more difficult batting era against far superior bowling attacks.

Dhoni was not any better than Gilchrist as ODI keeper. Are you forgetting he kept to quality spinners for literally his entire time as keeper? Dhoni is more unproven keeping to quicks than Gilly is keeping to spinners.

The thing is, you need to fit a keeper into an ATG side. Your choices are basically Gilchrist or Dhoni, though in recent times you might consider Buttler as an outside chance.

Playing Gilchrist gives you an aggressive opener who is going to either win you a game, set up the game or get out of the way for the middle order. Gilchrist was the best aggressive opener of his era - the era where the formula for winning was to have both an aggressive opener and a high averaging anchor (Tendulkar was the exception to the rule since he combined both).

Playing Dhoni gives you a great middle order safety net who could chase virtually any total down.

Pitching Buttler gives you the fastest scorer in history who is less reliable than Dhoni and a worse keeper than the other two.

Who you pick depends as much on what you need as anything else. An argument can be made for any of the three.

If you pick Dhoni, you can pick Jayasuriya to partner him which gives you a serious bowling option or you can pick a specialist batsman.

The argument here is that you would pick Rohit. But I don't think he'd fit the balance of the side at all. He would chew up way too many balls that the superior batsmen could use. I would argue that you're better off picking Roy who can bat more aggressively.

In fact, given the lack of bowling options amongst the best middle order batsmen, I'd argue you're best of with an all rounder - Jayasuriya or at a pinch Watson. But not Rohit.
 

OverratedSanity

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You ****s always mythologize losing performances in tests like Warne in the 05 Ashes getting destroyed by getting deposited into the stands repeatedly by Pietersen when it truly mattered or Smith bottling it in India in 2017 when he played on to a 130 kph half tracker from the little bhuvi Kumar with the series on the line. It's absolute nonsense so shut the **** up you have no idea what you're talking about.
+ three quarters of borders career
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
They were in part the greatest team in history because of him. Just got the big blokes out when it mattered. Lara 99, Tendulkar 03. Lined them up, called them out and just got it done.
While I admire Mcgrath for being such a clutch player, India was never going to win that match even if he did sweet little ****.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
On the other hand, Dhoni gives you a very marginally worse batsman - and probably the best "reader" of a game and constructor of a chase in the history of the game" - whilst also giving you Rohit, who in my eyes is a fair bit better than Gilchrist (and Jayasuriya). I don't see how this tradeoff is so obviously in favour of Gilchrist here.

And, uh

He would chew up way too many balls that the superior batsmen could use. I would argue that you're better off picking Roy who can bat more aggressively.
?????????
 

Logan

U19 Captain
McGrath was an all time great. No doubts about it. But playing for an ATG team had it’s benefits.

Even if he didn’t perform, someone else won the match for them.
 

Burgey

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Yeah Dhoni played the chaser/ finisher role brilliantly. Have him at least as good as Bevo tbh. Did it in a WC final too, not in Butt**** Idaho/ Sharjah/ wherever
 

Burgey

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While I admire Mcgrath for being such a clutch player, India was never going to win that match even if he did sweet little ****.
That’s probably true, though it was such a great moment seeing the Heimlich Manoeuvre come out in the first over.
 

Spark

Global Moderator
And, plus, I don't think Bevan ever did this:


No, I will never stop posting this.

EDIT: Holy **** I didn't realise how hard Ashwin tried to lose that game. Wtf was he thinking trying to ramp that first ball of the last over?
 
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