The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[OverratedSanity]

Yes Bedi Chandra and prasanna (to a lesser extent) all have very respectable overseas records. I'll hold Ashwin's overseas record against him until he wins India a game in England sa or Australia. Or atlesst has one consistently good series.

 

[vcs]

Ashwin should have got himself a 5-er in one of Edgbaston and Adelaide last year. Bowled well enough to deserve one. He's disappointed in SA on two occasions where we could have reasonably expected a big impact out of him - 2nd Test in the 2018 series and the 4th innings of that match where they nearly chased down 458 (all the bowlers fluffed their lines on that occasion though).

 

[h_hurricane]

I have generally held that Indian spinners of past have been a bit glorified and thought Ashwin is better than them all. Afterall after playing exactly the same number of games as Bedi, Ashwin has taken 90 wickets more than Bedi. But I just checked and found Ashwin has no fivers in any of the SENA countries, while both Bedi and Chandra have at least one fiver each in each of WENA countries (replacing SA with WI for their time). That's quite astonishing. And it doesn't seem like it was just a function of them bowling millions of overs because India didn't have pace bowlers. They both average under 35 in each of WENA countries except Bedi in England. (For some strange reason both Bedi and Chandra have their poorest records in Pakistan). Ashwin on the other hand averages >45 in SA and Aus. There is afterall some justification for including Bedi or Chandra in ATG India XI!

Bedi and Chandra both made merry against an extremely weak Aussie side in 1977 taking 31 and 28 wickets respectively in 5 tests. The top Aussie batsmen of that series were a 41 year old Simpson, Toohey,Cosier, Mann, Rixon and Yallop. I have to admit that I haven't heard half of these names earlier

But your larger point stands. Bedi, Chandra, Prasanna, Gupte and Mankad should be in discussion every time an ATG indian team is proposed.

 

[vcs]

Ashwin's contributions in WI and SL shouldn't be discounted. Especially in the 2015 series where India came back to win after the Galle collapse.

 

[harsh.ag]

Chandra and Gupte would be a fantastic spin combo

 

[h_hurricane]

Sometimes I wonder how much do we expect such stats to repeat indefinitely if the players could play indefinitely. These are smaller slices of their careers and chances of anomalies is higher in smaller sets of data.

This is the full career record of these players on hard and bouncy tracks. This is one of the factors to be considered while forming an ATG team imho. Of course, Kapil is inferior to them on low bouncy pitches as well as the lush green ones.

 

[Slifer]

Ashwin's contributions in WI and SL shouldn't be discounted. Especially in the 2015 series where India came back to win after the Galle collapse.

Wi teams of Ashwins times are a completely different animal from the ones chandra, and hell even what Kumble faced.

 

[h_hurricane]

Ashwin's contributions in WI and SL shouldn't be discounted. Especially in the 2015 series where India came back to win after the Galle collapse.

Yeah, that SL series is one of his career highlights. Had Sanga's number. Shouldn't be ignored just because it happened in Asia.

 

[h_hurricane]

An ATG Asian team

Gavaskar
Dravid
Sangakkara
Tendulkar
Kohli
Younis/Miandad (can't split)
Imran
Kapil
Wasim
Waqar
Murali

On hard bouncy tracks: Imran, Wasim and Kapil play the lead roles
On green mambas : Imran, Wasim and Waqar
On low and slow pitches : Imran, Wasim and Waqar
On rank turners : Murali alone is sufficient

Covers the bases on all fronts. Good depth in batting as well till no.9

A bit hard on Dravid to open and Sanga to play the dual role of no.3 and wicket keeper. But I am a bit greedy here. 11 bonafide ATGs.

 

[Slifer]

Atg European (descent) XI while we're at it:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman*
Smith
Hammond
Gilchrist+
Hadlee
Warne
Steyn
McGrath
Barnes

 

[Coronis]

Atg European (descent) XI while we're at it:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman*
Smith
Hammond
Gilchrist+
Hadlee
Warne
Steyn
McGrath
Barnes

Probs put Kallis in there and dump Barnes.

 

[Slifer]

Fk I forgot about him!! Great suggestion:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman*
Smith
Hammond
Kallis
Gilchrist+
Hadlee
Warne
Steyn
McGrath

 

[Red]

That bowling lineup is going to get exposed in Aus or WI without him. He was comfortably among the top 2 Asian bowlers in these 2 countries.

You think Kapil is better than all of Waqar, Wasim and Imran?

 

[CricAddict]

Nowhere near.

Imran is far far better than Dev.

Ashwin/Jadeja vs Saqlain is debatable as to who is better.

Agreed. It was a little exaggerated from my side to prove my point

 

[mr_mister]

Hammond was a more than competent bowler. People forget this a lot. He was an all rounder

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Hammond was a more than competent bowler. People forget this a lot. He was an all rounder

He's not from my time, so I ignored him.

 

[Coronis]

Was almost the first bloke to 1000 100 100.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Was almost the first bloke to 1000 100 100.

Great feat!

100 catches?

 

[Coronis]

Great feat!

100 catches?

Yeah 110 catches in 85 matches.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Yeah 110 catches in 85 matches.

Was he the first bloke to that feat?