Shaun Marsh, an international career finished?

[TimAngas]

Yeah the scapegoating after that Hobart test in hindsight wasn't a success for Australia. It ended Ferguson's career and threatened Burns'. The players who were brought in were very lucky to come in at that time since they could cash in against Pakistan and are now are all on the outer.

 

[quincywagstaff]

Such an odd, exasperating Test career.

Came into the side in SL in 2016 when the other bats couldn't buy a run and scored a century.

Yet in 2011/12 when Oz bats were scoring mountains of runs he couldn't last more than a few deliveries to save himself.

Overused as a Test player but have to agree that pre-injury he was wasted at this WC. Just seemed Oz selectors were trying to please everybody with team selections and their failures came too late to rectify it.

 

[stephen]

Yeah the scapegoating after that Hobart test in hindsight wasn't a success for Australia. It ended Ferguson's career and threatened Burns'. The players who were brought in were very lucky to come in at that time since they could cash in against Pakistan and are now are all on the outer.

Nevill and Burns were particularly harshly done by IMO. Nevill in particular was always coming in at 4/400 pushing for quick runs or 4/40 on a tricky wicket, neither of which are situations number 7s usually face. He was a grafter and would have been well suited to arriving at the crease at 4/200 and bringing the score up to 320 with a couple of good partnerships.

Burns and Ferguson were both in the side for a single test. That's ridiculous unless they were injury cover. The blame for that test should have been laid at the curators feet - they gave Philander a bloody green top to bowl on. That's Philander's bread, butter, jam and peanut butter. They should have trotted out a good old highway instead of giving the best bowling attack their ideal conditions and then blaming the guys who had been in the side for one test.

And then the selection just got weirder and weirder over the next few seasons.

Spin the roulette wheel to figure out who the opener of the summer will be... Renshaw, Bancroft, Harris.

 

[stephen]

Such an odd, exasperating Test career.

Came into the side in SL in 2016 when the other bats couldn't buy a run and scored a century.

Yet in 2011/12 when Oz bats were scoring mountains of runs he couldn't last more than a few deliveries to save himself.

Overused as a Test player but have to agree that pre-injury he was wasted at this WC. Just seemed Oz selectors were trying to please everybody with team selections and their failures came too late to rectify it.

Truly he was a gifted player who when he got in was magnificent to watch. Underrated as an ODI player but given far too many chances in the test side.

His problem was that between his magnificent hundreds he'd go for runs of single digit scores. This has been a problem for most West Australian batsmen in the national side post- Hussey. North was the other exaggerated case.

 

[Starfighter]

Came into the side in SL in 2016 when the other bats couldn't buy a run and scored a century.

Uh... Hussey's two tons (and 95 &93) and three resultant man-of-the-match awards (and series award) would like to have a word with you.

 

[Flem274*]

lacked the ruthlessness, and maybe the fitness, for test cricket imo

he was also unfortunate not to get the bangladeshi or sri lankan pace attack buffet at home often. i look at some players around the world *cough* tom latham *cough* and see them get a side out of their depth on a platter and duly sleepwalk their way to a career saving ton, and then i feel a bit sorry for players who came in against top sides, look terrible and get scapegoated.

though in this case, shaun marsh had plenty of tests against plenty of opposition. just wasn't ruthless enough to hold his place.

 

[vcs]

Similar Test career to Yuvraj, with a few more hundreds. Looked sublime for KXIP in that first season when I was actually interested in the IPL.

 

[quincywagstaff]

Uh... Hussey's two tons (and 95 &93) and three resultant man-of-the-match awards (and series award) would like to have a word with you.

That was 2011. 2016 was where Oz lost 3-0 and the Oz batsmen largely had a nightmare time.

 

[quincywagstaff]

lacked the ruthlessness, and maybe the fitness, for test cricket imo

he was also unfortunate not to get the bangladeshi or sri lankan pace attack buffet at home often. i look at some players around the world *cough* tom latham *cough* and see them get a side out of their depth on a platter and duly sleepwalk their way to a career saving ton, and then i feel a bit sorry for players who came in against top sides, look terrible and get scapegoated.

though in this case, shaun marsh had plenty of tests against plenty of opposition. just wasn't ruthless enough to hold his place.

Good point about fitness. Had numerous hamstring troubles over the years and was incapacitated during ODIs/Tests on multiple occasions.

Re: getting early runs, he did get a big unbeaten ton against that dire West Indies side that toured in 16/17 but he could get tough runs outside Oz, albeit very rarely in the past couple of years.

 

[morgieb]

Good point about fitness. Had numerous hamstring troubles over the years and was incapacitated during ODIs/Tests on multiple occasions.

Re: getting early runs, he did get a big unbeaten ton against that dire West Indies side that toured in 16/17 but he could get tough runs outside Oz, albeit very rarely in the past couple of years.

Yeah oddly enough his last couple of years were basically the opposite of his earlier career. For most of his career he could get tough runs (unlike a lot of our batsmen!) but didn't really cash in for easier situations. Then in the last 12 months of his career he dominated weak attacks but was found wanting in tougher conditions.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nevill and Burns were particularly harshly done by IMO. Nevill in particular was always coming in at 4/400 pushing for quick runs or 4/40 on a tricky wicket, neither of which are situations number 7s usually face. He was a grafter and would have been well suited to arriving at the crease at 4/200 and bringing the score up to 320 with a couple of good partnerships.

Nevill failed quite a lot in the exact situations you described (ie. 4/100-200). It was probably right to drop him tbh.

Burns shouldn't have dropped at that time though. Ironically the result of most of the times Burns has been dropped has helped him protect his stats quite well, as it's led to him playing most of his Tests at home on roads, against crap bowling, and being dropped when Aus have a tough series or tour.

lacked the ruthlessness, and maybe the fitness, for test cricket imo

he was also unfortunate not to get the bangladeshi or sri lankan pace attack buffet at home often. i look at some players around the world *cough* tom latham *cough* and see them get a side out of their depth on a platter and duly sleepwalk their way to a career saving ton, and then i feel a bit sorry for players who came in against top sides, look terrible and get scapegoated.

though in this case, shaun marsh had plenty of tests against plenty of opposition. just wasn't ruthless enough to hold his place.

This is why you can't compare players from different countries. Australia, through their own fault tbf, play much less against weaker teams than anyone else.

 

[Midwinter]

What sticks in the craw about the aftermath of the Hobart test is that the criteria they used to justify dropping players wasn't applied to the ones they then selected.

 

[the big bambino]

From whats come out after sandpaper gate is selection right after that hobart test was governed by anger not reason.

 

[TheJediBrah]

They clearly weren't in their right mind if selecting Nic Maddinson seemed like a good idea

 

[stephen]

The governance of Australian cricket was clearly living in ivory towers at that point. Their handling of the player negotiations was the worst I've ever seen. And it culminated in the sandpaper affair. The sandpaper affair wouldn't have been anywhere near as much of a problem if CA acted even remotely reasonably.

 

[Spark]

Honestly the person most at fault for the sandpaper thing is Lehmann IMO. We forget - or, at least, many people around the world rather conveniently forget - that ball tampering "scandals" are rather common and rather quickly forgotten, and usually dealt with quickly and quietly. But it was that idiotic press conference after the day which threw all the fuel on the fire, being exactly the wrong mixture of admitting that they'd flat out cheated, which made people angry, whilst also obviously lying about exactly how, which made people more angry.

Which brings me back to Lehmann. Wtf was he doing allowing his captain and rookie opener out there to take the heat? Man up and front up yourself ffs, and dead-bat any questions with "we're gonna get to the bottom with this, we're working with the ICC and match referee, not going to comment further until stuff is complete". From all accounts Sutherland et al were literally asleep at the time too.

 

[mr_mister]

'From all accounts Sutherland et al were literally asleep at the time too.'

Like Hitler during the Dday landings

 

[Howe_zat]

Lehmann was never anything other than a brainless posturer. Just appealed to the home summer crowd. It he were a CW member he'd never have been tolerated.

 

[stephen]

Lehmann was never anything other than a brainless posturer. Just appealed to the home summer crowd. It he were a CW member he'd never have been tolerated.

Lehmann was no intellectual but he was a very good cricket coach. When he took over Queensland coaching he turned them right around. And he was the perfect coach to taker over after homeworkgate and all the other stuff that had gone on.

He was not a PR guy though.

By all reports it was Smith and Bancroft who wanted to do the press conference and they couldn't be talked out of it. Smith was trying to replicate the "success" of his post Hobart presser.

 

[the big bambino]

Having failed to stand up to Warner, Smith should've backed down to the coach.