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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

_00_deathscar

International Regular
Why are people forgetting Kirimani? Far superior keeper to Dhoni and a very good batsman too, almost Gilchrist-like although not of the same class.

Anyway:
Hanif
Gavaskar
Dravid

A top 3 I wouldn't wish on any bowler, or spectator.
In the interest of balance, that's also why I'd have Sehwag in there. Sunny to block one end and keep it ticking away and Sehwag to go bat**** insane at the other - either going 150 off 175 balls or getting out for 10 in 8 balls. I genuinely think that would be much, much harder for bowlers to deal with rather than the solid consistency you get from the top three you chose. It also adds an element of uncertainty and unpredictability - and no bowler wants that.

In fact, and colour me crazy, but I think Sunny and Sehwag would have been an absolutely gun combo, and if they had played together in the same era, Sehwag would be thought of as a much, much better player than he currently is. Gambhir was okay, but he wasn't an ideal/perfect foil for Sehwag which Sunny would have been.

It also depends what kind of team you're in - Sehwag is perfect for a team that is stacked (he'd have been great as an Australian for instance, but he'd be absolutely vilified for being a Bangladeshi cricketer). Not that India weren't any good around the time, mind.
 
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CricAddict

Cricketer Of The Year
India eaters XI last 40 years

Jayasuriya
Gooch
Zaheer
Miandad
A Flower +
Imran *
Botham
S. Pollock
Hadlee
Marshall
Donald
Shouldn't Hayden get in there? His new life started by having India for breakfast.

Edit: Nevertheless, a good team. And I will also take Mcgrath for Pollock. I don't remember Pollock destroying India much.
 
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TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
McGrath 51 wkts @ 18
Pollock 52 wkts @ 19

pretty much even

Hayden was much better against India than Jaya and Gooch though, should easily make the team
 

trundler

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Richie Benaud should be the leggie. In for one of the 5 quicks. There's also his batting and captaincy to boot. Absolutely wrecked India in his time.
 
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Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Best against India in India...


Hashim Amla
Bert Sutcliffe
Everton Weekes
Clive Lloyd
Andy Flower
Gary Sobers
Tony Greig
Richie Benaud
Alan Davidson
Courtney Walsh
Glenn McGrath
 

Borges

International Regular
Best against India in India: Ken Barrington
Also the only visiting player, who was more popular among the Indian crowds than any of the home players: they called him Borington and they adored him.
(EDIT: Gary Sobers too, I suppose; though the crowds were far more demonstrative of their affection for Barrington.)
 
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Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
Steyn > McGrath in India.

Also Alastair Cook and Steve Smith deserve a spot in there.
Not really gonna argue with any of that but I'd say there's a few contenders who are the equal of or perhaps better than Cook and Smith in this discussion, both in my team and not in my team.

Steyn over McGrath is fine, I'd be happy with either one.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Read through the 563 pages of this forum the past couple of weeks. With a few exceptions, really was a fascinating read, especially with regard to change of opinion or perspective by some over time.
 

Starfighter

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Read through the 563 pages of this forum the past couple of weeks. With a few exceptions, really was a fascinating read, especially with regard to change of opinion or perspective by some over time.
*211 pages.

What were the exceptions?
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
The past 20 odd pages, plus some others in between with Miyagi and whom ever he was arguing with. Yeah those stand out.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
So my views have also evolved somewhat as well over the years.

First of all, I think that there are 2 types of ATG XI. An honorary one, and a practical one, where we can go back in time and select a team that we would choose a team to represent up vs the Martians. And even that team may vary a bit in different conditions, Murali in for a pacer if playing in India for example.

The 1st such XI varies little from person to person.

Sir Jack Hobbs
Sir Leonard Hutton
Sir Donald Bradman
Sir I.V.A. Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Glenn McGrath

You have the 5 Wisden cricketers of the century, Gilly changed the standard of expectations for his position, and kept to 2 members of the attack with distinction. The sheer weight of numbers for McGrath and Tendulkar are just too much to ignore. Marshall for me was just the best, had it all, could do it all, and did it every where and against everyone. Hutton was just amazing on both sides of the war and had so much to overcome and he did it with perfect technique and determination.

A team i would choose to take on the Martians, that's when it would become a bit more contentious and subjective.

Barry Richards
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Garry Sobers


Adam Gilchrist

Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Glenn McGrath

The other slots, even in my mind requires some additional discussion. From watching even more cricket of late, one sees it not just about the best 11 batsmen and bowlers, it's also about team balance. A batsman or 2 who can bowl, at least to hold up an end, keeping it tight or breaking up a partnership. The current test series also reminded me of the importance of a great cordon (especially 2nd slip), especially in this hypothetical highest of levels. Finally, while not necessarily needing bowling all rounders, at least your no. 8 and 9 should be able to handle a bat.

For my middle order, one slot must go to either Richards or Tendulkar, possibly even both. But part of me wants a special "3" way player. A supreme batsman equal to or just below the two previously named; a superb slip fielder to join Sobers (my 2nd slip) in 1st; and someone who can also assist or suoerceed Sir Garry as a 5th bowler, especially if two spinners are utilised.

An initial thought went to Bobby Simpson, but he was best as an opener and if anyone could replace the two named it would be Sunny. So the three in contention for me would be.
Wally Hammond, Greg Chappel or Jacques Kallis. If I rank them as batsman, it's near impossible to separate them. An argument can be made for any. As slip fielders, Kallis (As with his batting and bowling) was reliably safe, the other 2 though were just absolutely special. As bowlers Jacques is slightly ahead of the other 2. One will make the squad and possibly the 11. Because he would be best suited to come on first or second change if required, belive it has to be Kallis.

My only other difficult choice is the no. 8 holding all rounder / possible second spinner choice. The second spinner woukd of course be Murali. The allrondwr slot is more difficult.

With Glenn and Maco sharing the new ball, an old ball specialist would be ideal. Wasim Akram fills that role and as a legit bowling all rounder better than any. His lefty variation is also a plus. My contentious alternative is Mike Proctor. He was in my mind the greatest legitimate bowling allrounder who never got the chance to prove it. He was a legitimate front line bowler (unlike Miller) and consistently a borderline front batsman (more so than Imran imo). But because the person selected would be handling the older ball in marathon spells with Warne, and because he was (despite previously discussed short comings) a magician and A legit lower order batsman, I will start with Akram.

So.. The base XI

Barry Richards
Sir Leonard Hutton
Sir Donald Bradman
Sir I.V.A Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Wasim Akram
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Glenn McGrath

Jacques Kallis

Barry was just recognised by all who saw him as just the best. Lillee ranks him with Sobers and his Caribbean namesake. He has to play.

I am a still a little concerned about the cordon, but Viv, Barry and Shane should be good enough surrounding Sobers.

The alternate 11 for spimning conditions.

Barry Richards
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Garry Sobers
Sachin Tendulkar
Jacques Kallis
Allan Knott
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan
Glenn McGrath

Mike Proctor

Yeah. The tail there is a bit long and may require Gilchrist again, depending on how he handles Murali in practice.

The rest of the squad not so far listed

Sunil Gavaskar

Brian Lara
Dennis Lillee

The last two being on alert if required.

The forums though are welcome.
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
In spinning conditions I would always pick Sehwag in the team.

Far from the other names mentioned overall - but he was a different beast in SC.
 

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