*Official* India Tour of England 2018

[SteveWaugh]

It's pretty obvious. He's played there before. Several times, for India and India A. More than Pant has. The ball in England swings after passing the batsmen, and the Duke behaves and feels different to the SG, He's actually experienced that, he'll know what adjustments to make when keeping better than Pant does.

Furthermore, there is a difference between Test and FC cricket. Karthik has experienced Test cricket intensity, he knows what it's like to keep wicket there. Pant does not.

Also this:

You make no sense. Saying that Pant has played zero games and so you would not pick him, would be stupid and a logical fallacy.

Furthermore, if Pant fails you already have the safer choice of Dinesh Karthik to fall back on. There is minimal risk and maximum reward associated with picking Pant, as he clearly has a higher level of baseline talent and productivity than Dinesh karthik.

 

[cnerd123]

Well put. ***** must understand that when making choices, you do not go for the safer choice but the better choice. Going with safer choices would result in us having a short-term keeper for 2-3 years, and Pant having wasted even more of his years on the bench, and not developing for the international.

Pant already has the high-baseline level of talent and productivity to get into the Test team.

We've seen what happens when you take talented youngsters and throw them into the deep end. If they don't swim they drown, and you knock 2-3 years off their career that they then spend trying to recover that confidence and faith of the selectors.

Debut Pant in a home series against SL or BD or smth. Don't need to give him a debut in one of the biggest Test Series that he will ever take part in.

 

[SteveWaugh]

We've seen what happens when you take talented youngsters and throw them into the deep end. If they don't swim they drown, and you knock 2-3 years off their career that they then spend trying to recover that confidence and faith of the selectors.

Debut Pant in a home series against SL or BD or smth. Don't need to give him a debut in one of the biggest Test Series that he will ever take part in.

How, then, would we know whether to pick Pant or not when it comes to the next England series? You are a backer of defensive, brutal and muscular cricket. Congratulations on fetishizing defensive cricket. Now go and watch athletics or the English Premier League.

 

[harsh.ag]

We've seen what happens when you take talented youngsters and throw them into the deep end. If they don't swim they drown, and you knock 2-3 years off their career that they then spend trying to recover that confidence and faith of the selectors.

Debut Pant in a home series against SL or BD or smth. Don't need to give him a debut in one of the biggest Test Series that he will ever take part in.

There is this danger for sure, but I have a feeling that the current young stars aren't nearly as prone to going through a crisis. They have more confidence and more belief and more support. And why shouldn't they, esp someone like Pant? He plays in the IPL, so is financially secure. It's not like there is great competition for the wk spot as of now (in the sense, Saha is in his 30s and so is Karthik and Pant knows he is the likely successor), so he should be mentally secure somewhat there as well.

 

[Starfighter]

How, then, would we know whether to pick Pant or not when it comes to the next England series? You are a backer of defensive, brutal and muscular cricket. Congratulations on fetishizing defensive cricket. Now go and watch athletics or the English Premier League.

lol

 

[cnerd123]

How, then, would we know whether to pick Pant or not when it comes to the next England series? You are a backer of defensive, brutal and muscular cricket. Congratulations on fetishizing defensive cricket. Now go and watch athletics or the English Premier League.

What's with all the blow ins and the dire attitude?

Saha is the incubent. If he wasn't injured, he'd be playing. We don't need a new Test keeper right now, and Pant is only 20.

If the time comes to move on past Saha, start grooming Pant is some lesser series, let him establish himself at Test level, and then bring him abroad to keep. He'll struggle on his first tour, but atleast he'll be playing that tour with the confidence that comes with being a regular in the side, the experience the comes with having Tests under the belt, and a degree of assurance that he won't be axed if he sucks.

You play Pant here, if he sucks after 2 Tests, you've wrecked his confidence, you drop him for Karthik, and then when Saha is back he's out of the Test squad completely and now has no clue if he's going to get another crack. Why do that to the kid?

What makes it worse is if someone like Sanju Samson then has a beast of a Ranji season. What are you going to do? Pick Samson or pick the 'proven Test failure' Pant?

There is no need to debut a kid in India's biggest series for 3-4 years. Karthik is more than capable. If the choice was between Pant and Lokesh Rahul as keeper, then sure, Pant all the way. But Karthik's good and in form. Just play him.

 

[Pratters]

Fetishising defensive cricket - Dravid fans since 1996.

 

[cnerd123]

There is this danger for sure, but I have a feeling that the current young stars aren't nearly as prone to going through a crisis. They have more confidence and more belief and more support. And why shouldn't they, esp someone like Pant? He plays in the IPL, so is financially secure. It's not like there is great competition for the wk spot as of now (in the sense, Saha is in his 30s and so is Karthik and Pant knows he is the likely successor), so he should be mentally secure somewhat there as well.

There are going to be more Test matches after this series. If you debut Pant, you're expecting a 20 year old to
1) Adjust to playing a Test match
2) Adjust to keeping in England
3) Adjust to the workload of a 5-Test Series
4) Perform a vital role in the team in one of the biggest series in their schedule

There is no need for this when Karthik is in the squad. Just go for the veteran in good form. When Saha is back he'll take over this role anyways. Groom Pant in less important series. He's got so many years ahead of him, why are we being rash and risking wrecking this kids confidence and setting his development back.

 

[cnerd123]

Fetishising defensive cricket - Dravid fans since 1996.

The irony is that this newbie doesn't realise my fetish for Shahid Afridi

 

[harsh.ag]

Saha is the incubent. If he wasn't injured, he'd be playing. We don't need a new Test keeper right now, and Pant is only 20.

If the time comes to move on past Saha, start grooming Pant is some lesser series, let him establish himself at Test level, and then bring him abroad to keep. He'll struggle on his first tour, but atleast he'll be playing that tour with the confidence that comes with being a regular in the side, the experience the comes with having Tests under the belt, and a degree of assurance that he won't be axed if he sucks.

You play Pant here, if he sucks after 2 Tests, you've wrecked his confidence, you drop him for Karthik, and then when Saha is back he's out of the Test squad completely and now has no clue if he's going to get another crack. Why do that to the kid?

What makes it worse is if someone like Sanju Samson then has a beast of a Ranji season. What are you going to do? Pick Samson or pick the 'proven Test failure' Pant?

There is no need to debut a kid in India's biggest series for 3-4 years. Karthik is more than capable. If the choice was between Pant and Lokesh Rahul as keeper, then sure, Pant all the way. But Karthik's good and in form. Just play him.

There are going to be more Test matches after this series. If you debut Pant, you're expecting a 20 year old to
1) Adjust to playing a Test match
2) Adjust to keeping in England
3) Adjust to the workload of a 5-Test Series
4) Perform a vital role in the team in one of the biggest series in their schedule

There is no need for this when Karthik is in the squad. Just go for the veteran in good form. When Saha is back he'll take over this role anyways. Groom Pant in less important series. He's got so many years ahead of him, why are we being rash and risking wrecking this kids confidence and setting his development back.

Solid points. Hope Karthik is good enough. His keeping makes me nervous.

 

[Pratters]

Nair has had a good domestic season and is a fine player. Hence, I back him compared to a Pujara (who can't make runs at this point) and Dhawan (who is extremely rash).

 

[SteveWaugh]

Nair has had a good domestic season and is a fine player. Hence, I back him compared to a Pujara (who can't make runs at this point) and Dhawan (who is extremely rash).

Why don't you back Prithvi Shaw over Karun Nair?

 

[Pratters]

Why don't you back Prithvi Shaw over Karun Nair?

Shaw isn't in the test squad.

 

[Borges]

Hope Karthik is good enough. His keeping makes me nervous.

Karthik is not good enough. But Pant's keeping makes me even more nervous.

 

[Pratters]

Regarding Shaw.. he does look like the real deal. I can see him making his test debut in a year or so.

 

[harsh.ag]

What's going on with England? Do they have a settled batting line-up? If Adil Rashid plays, Moeen will have to make way for a batsman, right?

 

[vcs]

Pant might struggle to cover Hardik's swing

 

[Howe_zat]

Well put. ***** must understand that when making choices, you do not go for the safer choice but the better choice. Going with safer choices would result in us having a short-term keeper for 2-3 years, and Pant having wasted even more of his years on the bench, and not developing for the international.

Pant already has the high-baseline level of talent and productivity to get into the Test team.

just chiming in to point out that ***** understands **** all

 

[TheJediBrah]

What's going on with England? Do they have a settled batting line-up? If Adil Rashid plays, Moeen will have to make way for a batsman, right?

Is Moeen even in the team? I thought they dropped him for Bess

 

[Howe_zat]

What's going on with England? Do they have a settled batting line-up?

No. They have about 3 batsmen and are looking at how many wicket keepers and allrounders might be able to plug the gaps.

If Adil Rashid plays, Moeen will have to make way for a batsman, right?

I doubt either will play - chances are they will pick a similar side to the last test against Pakistan, in which they switched to a much more conventional set up than the Moeen at 8 strategy (even though I like that one).

Cook
Jennings
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Bess
Broad
Anderson

Probably Sam Curran for twelfth because you've got to do your time in the high visibilty tabard young man if you want to get anywhere in this line of work

The weakest player in that team is Jennings, who has only just been recalled, so I guess he's in.

On form they might recall Rashid ahead of Bess, and it would be a pretty strange time to do it given this is Rashid's first white-ball-only season and Bess had a good game in the last test. Still it would be a fine oppertunitiy to kick the county game in the nuts again, so it's plausible.

If it were up to me, I'd kick Jennings, make Buttler or Bairstow open and play Ben Foakes at #7. My reasons for doing this are not entirely cricket related