Jonbrooks chucking Megathread

[cnerd123]

Velocity of flex?

So if I straightened my arm a whole 90 degrees like a baseball pitcher, but it did it slowly enough, that would be acceptable to you?

But Murali isn't?

What?

 

[Pratters]

This is a technical topic which is being debated among cricketing circles. It's annoying when a bunch of people start calling names without understanding the topic. It's as if there is closed mind mentality and any thing else is idiotic and dumb. Terrible form.

 

[cnerd123]

This is a technical topic which is being debated among cricketing circles. It's annoying when a bunch of people start calling names without understanding the topic. It's as if there is closed mind mentality and any thing else is idiotic and dumb. Terrible form.

Lol what.

Links plz.

 

[honestbharani]

This is a technical topic which is being debated among cricketing circles. It's annoying when a bunch of people start calling names without understanding the topic. It's as if there is closed mind mentality and any thing else is idiotic and dumb. Terrible form.

 

[Pratters]

Holding also has same views on the doosra Doosra can't be bowled legally: Michael Holding - Indian Express

Maybe he is a dumb**** too. Heh.

 

[cnerd123]

Holding also has same views on the doosra Doosra can't be bowled legally: Michael Holding - Indian Express

Maybe he is a dumb**** too. Heh.

Oh God not this again.

 

[Pratters]

There is a reason a lot of former players are not in favour of the doosra. It's not some agenda against Murali or subcontinent people. It is unfair use of elbow which at its essence is chucking. Now current laws may allow chucking if within 15 degrees. Doesn't make it correct. The earlier velocity of flex comes into cricket and the earlier the doosra is outlawed, the better.

 

[cnerd123]

> Encounter complicated topic
> Form opinion based on pre existing biases and perceptions
> Seek out credible-sounding sources to support existing opinion
> Ignore evidence against existing opinion
> Never actually learn anything about said topic and its complexities
> Act smug


zzzz

 

[Pratters]

> Encounter complicated topic
> Form opinion based on pre existing biases and perceptions
> Seek out credible-sounding sources to support existing opinion
> Ignore evidence against existing opinion
> Never actually learn anything about said topic and its complexities
> Act smug


zzzz

Actually you are the one asking for sources. You should decide if you want sources or not.

 

[cnerd123]

Actually you are the one asking for sources. You should decide if you want sources or not.

Sure. I've asked several times for evidence of what you are saying and all you have linked to is an article of Holding having a waah.

It's like how jonbrooks claimed Mural's 'effort ball' was a chuck but provided 0 evidence to back it up.

 

[honestbharani]

Holding and Bedi... Classic cases of "everything was better in my day" tools with respect to bowling actions...

 

[Pratters]

What evidence do you want exactly *****? It's not that difficult to understand what I have said.

 

[Pratters]

I feel for the umpires who called Murali like Hair and Emerson. They were essentially doing their job but their careers was effectively finished because supposedly they had agendas against subcontinent bowlers. When people start defending Murali and company why don't they defend Emerson and Hair who paid the price of doing their job with their careers.

 

[cnerd123]

What evidence do you want exactly *****? It's not that difficult to understand what I have said.

What is Flex Velocity and why is it a better measure of chucking than Flex Angle.

 

[Pratters]

But you are not serious about the topic sweetheart. You are just laughing when I say it is being debated among cricketing circles. Samiuddin wrote a piece on it (let's talk about flex). Search it to understand some latest views on the topic. This is a very complicated topic. Please don't brush it aside just by blindly following the current laws. Or continue to believe whatever floats your boat. I can't believe how some one can keep defending the doosra after I have explained in detail why it's does not have merit and calling the other person smug. Velocity should be used because it means the elbow is used to 'bowl' the delivery. I am not saying some sort of degrees shouldn't be used. However, velocity has to come into play. Else balls like the doosra will continue to be bowled.

 

[fredfertang]

Agreed, also the current law isn't correct because New Zealand don't automatically get a 50 run head start.

I can't agree with this - I understand the principle but would have thought the correct figure nearer 25 - anyway as its calculus surely some statsguru refugee can tell us exactly what is required so that we won't even need to bear in mind a margin of error?

 

[cnerd123]

But you are not serious about the topic sweetheart. You are just laughing when I say it is being debated among cricketing circles. Samiuddin wrote a piece on it (let's talk about flex). Search it to understand some latest views on the topic. This is a very complicated topic. Please don't brush it aside just by blindly following the current laws. Or continue to believe whatever floats your boat. I can't believe how some one can keep defending the doosra after I have explained in detail why it's does not have merit and calling the other person smug. Velocity should be used because it means the elbow is used to 'bowl' the delivery. I am not saying some sort of degrees shouldn't be used. However, velocity has to come into play. Else balls like the doosra will continue to be bowled.

Have you even read that article? Nowhere in it is the phrase 'flex velocity' used. The closest is this passage?

Even if it is accepted that most bowlers who throw violate the current 15-degree limit," the report said, "this study has shown there are bowlers who can achieve throw-like actions while remaining within this limit… If it is decided that these actions do not conform to aesthetic requirements of a cricket bowl, then further measures such as elbow-extension angular velocity through release and absolute elbow angle may need to be considered.

I don't know what it is that yo do for a living, but the phrases 'flex velocity' and 'elbow-extension angular velocity through release' aren't the same.

On top of that, this same article also says this:

There is much more, too much more. Spratford is on the verge of completing his own PhD on how Australia can get more out of their spinners. The concluding portion of his thesis has data about spinners who can bowl the doosra - which Australian coaches have made a point of not teaching - based on testing of over 60 offspinners from Australia and around the world. "They're all different. What one person calls a doosra is kinematically different to someone else, and what I've found is that bowlers can bowl it legally," Spratford said. "But there is a difference in technique between people. And then there are people who are extending 40 degrees trying to bowl it. It is possible to bowl some kind of doosra legally, the ball out of the front of the hand. Extending your elbow helps you get the arm through. I've got data from guys who play high-level cricket who bowl a doosra that is legal. But they are not people who you would ever suspect of having an illegal action. It is possible to bowl some kind of doosra legally."

Which flies against your own stance on the doosra. Here is a guy getting a PhD and doing a thesis on the topic. Do you think Holding and Bedi know more than him?

Like seriously Pratters, this is dire posting even by your standards.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I actually have time for a couple of JediBrah's arguments even though I don't agree with them.

Pratters though.

 

[harsh.ag]

But you are not serious about the topic sweetheart.

Get a room guys

 

[cnerd123]

his is a very complicated topic. Please don't brush it aside just by blindly following the current laws. Or continue to believe whatever floats your boat.

Like seriously, apply this to yourself.

Explain what flex velocity is. Show me links to these "cricketing circles" within which "debate" is happening over the way we measure and classify chucking. I really want to see what information you believe you are privy to that I am unaware of.