State & Future of New Zealand Cricket

[Natman20]

I simply cannot believe that, given that Fulton is patently (at the current time at least) the better batsman, in both game-forms at that.

A better batsman maybe but playing less confidently at this time than McCullum. McCullum just needs to work on trying not to hit every ball and his patience slightly, waiting for the chance to play a big shot. Fulton needs to work on finding gaps in the field and taking sngles although I have to say thats pretty foreign to the NZ batsmen and probably one of the reasons why our batting has failed.

 

[Fiery]

I simply cannot believe that, given that Fulton is patently (at the current time at least) the better batsman, in both game-forms at that.

I think most Black Cap fans would chose McCullum over Fulton in a ODI side Richard because they know what he is capable of. Maybe I'm wrong. What do others think?

 

[Natman20]

Fulton as a test player has a lot of potential but not in the shorter form whereas McCullum can be destructive when he needs to be such as when we chased down 334 to win against Australia and he scored a very rapid fifty with his fav 6 shots over extra cover. I remember one innings where Fulton pulled a few 6s. Fulton has had a few reasonable partnerships in the past.

 

[Richard]

Is being destructive once in 40-odd games really enough to merit selection ahead of relative decency of consistency?

As regards the confidence - I'd rather have someone playing unconfidently for 40 than confidently for 11.

 

[Fiery]

Is being destructive once in 40-odd games really enough to merit selection ahead of relative decency of consistency?

As regards the confidence - I'd rather have someone playing unconfidently for 40 than confidently for 11.

Once? He's played 95 games and played many important and destructive innings. Stick to what you know about Richard. See below:

To help win the game vs WI 2003
Match Winning innings v SL 2003
Destructive innings vs Australia
Important not out to win game v India 2004
Good knock to get team to reasonable score v Aus 2004
Match winning not out v Aus 2004
21 ball 50 vs Zim (8th fastest ever and NZ record equalling
Destructive (possibly match-winning innings v India 2005
28 off 21 v India 2005 with 2 6s (OK, that one might be pushing it)
48 off 33 to came with 2 runs of chasing down Aus's 322 in 2005
Perhaps his best one of all. 50 off 25 to successfully chase 331 v Aus 2005
45 off 44 to help beat Windies 2006
Electric start that was perhaps the difference in 1 ball win vs SL 2006

Enough?

 

[NZTailender]

What's the point in playing ODIs if you're not going to make the next WC?

To retire at home in front of your home crowds.

 

[Blaze]

McCullum is horribly over rated. 100 games and an average of just 20 is terrible.

I don't rate Fulton either so I don't know who I would prefer.

With only Ryder and Taylor coming through as promising young players I am becoming increasingly concerned for our future.

I don't know of any bowlers at all coming through so I would say we will be back to the Ken Rutherford days very soon (if we aren't already there)

 

[Prince EWS]

You said were it to come down to a straight shoot-off between the two of them with one place available, you'd go for McCullum.

I think that would really depend on if there was a wicket keeper amongst the other ten players in the side.

 

[Will Scarlet]

Has Ryder gained weight?

I saw a photo of Ryder recently. Has he gained weight? He looks huge these days. If he has it might explain his recent poor form.

 

[Perm]

He is a big guy but nothing that should keep him out of the side as far as I'm concerned, not since he is the most talented young batsman in the country behind Ross Taylor. I would rather have Peter Fulton in the team than Brendon McCullum if we are basing this purely on batting, nothing to do with McCullum's wicket keeping. He is over-rated and that's the simple matter, he can play a blistering innings but what use is that if it's only 20 or 30? None, very rarely it will come off and be a match winner like against Australia and the West Indies.

Peter Fulton for me will be one of the stalwarts of our middle order once he sort's out his confidence in himself, he is certainly more than capable of being a classy ODI and test batsman but more often than not doesn't appear to back himself. One aspect that I do find good about Fulton's batting is that he is able to form good partnerships. Since Fulton has come back into the side against Sri Lanka in 2004/2005 he has played several important innings.

70* to win the game vs Sri Lanka
50 to set up a good total vs Sri Lanka
112 to keep the game alive, ran out of partners vs Sri Lanka
49 to set up a win vs West Indies
43* to win the game vs Sri Lanka
37 when almost all the team failed

 

[Bahnz]

With only Ryder and Taylor coming through as promising young players I am becoming increasingly concerned for our future.

I wouldn't say that. Neil Broom looks to be a pretty promising player, down in Otago, and I've heard very good things about Hamish Bennett and he's only 19. I reckon there's a decent crop coming through that'll keep New Zealand cricket in good shape for the next 10 years.

 

[Perm]

Broom has played for the New Zealand Under 19's I think so he is obviously well known by those higher up, needs to keep batting consistently with Craig Cumming and Aaron Redmond and hopefully he will learn from them, and Otago will profit.

 

[Richard]

Once? He's played 95 games and played many important and destructive innings. Stick to what you know about Richard.

I know plenty about 'em... don't give me that nonsense.

To help win the game vs WI 2003

Wow, so destructive... was completely bogged-down in comparison to Adams.

Match Winning innings v SL 2003

Match-winning maybe, but hardly destructive in 47 off 63 (hardly like that pitch allowed anyone to be).

Destructive innings vs Australia

Yep, I'll give you that one.

Important not out to win game v India 2004

Wow, a whole 19...

Good knock to get team to reasonable score v Aus 2004

Again... decent knock but hardly destructive.

Match winning not out v Aus 2004

Again... a whole 20...

21 ball 50 vs Zim (8th fastest ever and NZ record equalling

WOW, ZIMBABWE, WHY DON'T WE INCLUDE SOME OF HIS INNINGS FOR GLAMORGAN LAST SUMMER?

Destructive (possibly match-winning innings v India 2005

Yep, I'll give you that one.

28 off 21 v India 2005 with 2 6s (OK, that one might be pushing it)

It is.

48 off 33 to came with 2 runs of chasing down Aus's 322 in 2005

Yep, again I'll give you that one.

Perhaps his best one of all. 50 off 25 to successfully chase 331 v Aus 2005

Again, I'll give you that one.

45 off 44 to help beat Windies 2006

Against the might of Dwayne Smith, Chris Gayle and Rawl Lewis...

Electric start that was perhaps the difference in 1 ball win vs SL 2006

Perhaps - and perhaps every single other innings was, too. Even so, it was only 32.

Enough?

All right, I'll grant you that it was more 1 in 20 games than 1 in 40, but it's still hardly enough to excuse countless low scores.

 

[Richard]

To retire at home in front of your home crowds.

I suppose, but if he keeps playing Tests I wouldn't have thought that'd be a major consideration.

 

[Richard]

I think that would really depend on if there was a wicket keeper amongst the other ten players in the side.

My initial hypothesis was if a 20-year-old wicketkeeper-batsman started scoring centuries and forced his way into the side.

 

[Prince EWS]

My initial hypothesis was if a 20-year-old wicketkeeper-batsman started scoring centuries and forced his way into the side.

Well there's no way in hell McCullum would make the side over Fulton based on batting alone.

 

[Richard]

If you ask Mr. Fiery here, there is.

 

[Fiery]

If you ask Mr. Fiery here, there is.

On current form I may have to revise my opinion tbh

 

[Fiery]

Jacob Oram

Then he should not be in the side. He is quite possibly the most over-rated ODI batsman ever. He averages 18.86 in 87 ODIs and 23.34 in 155 List A matches. Hardly anything that jumps out and says "number 6 ODI batsman." His bowling is quite good at ODI level and he should be picked based on this, but his batting is ridiculously over-rated and he would get nosebleeds batting anywhere higher than 7.

At test level, he is clearly a batsman who can bowl a bit - but it's quite the opposite in one day matches IMO.

It really depends on your definition of a "long innings."

Regardless of which though, you have selected him to bat at #6. He has done such 33 times for an average of 14.57 and a HS of 43. Obviously, whatever is being required of him at 6 isn't something he is particularly good at.

I don't doubt his place in the team, due to his bowling really, but his batting is not good enough for #6, clearly.

What does that have to do with my point though? They clearly have better players to bat at 6 than Jacob Oram. Your reply smacks of the admission of defeat.

Better than Oram I'm sure. Marshall has only batted at 6 twice but he scored 76 and 43... Oram has had an extended run there and has never fired. His bowling is good enough to keep him in the equation, but I'd bat him at 8 - below McCullum. Vettori can bat 9 with Bond and either Gillespie or Patel to round off the bowling attack.

I've seen quite a bit of him actually - NZ summer of cricket is always shown in Australia for whatever reason. He's a good test batsman and an average test bowler - but quite the opposite at ODI level, being a good ODI bowler and an average ODI batsman. Both his averages and simply how he has looked when he is out there suggest this to me.

I presume you quoted the wrong post there, but anyway.. I don't see why Styris and Astle couldn't combine to be a 5th bowling option. You probably wouldn't want to have just one of them and rely on it - but combined I think they are more than good enough to do so. Styris is really an under-rated one day bowler.

Idealy it obviously isn't best to have these two as your fifth bowler, but I think it makes more sense than having a #6 who averages under 20 after about 85 innings...

I take this opportunity to say...nah nah nana..na

 

[Fiery]

On current form I may have to revise my opinion tbh

Actually no, I'll stick with my opinion. Tonight's knock showed he CAN play with brains as well as skill