Fiery
Banned
I'm happy with Oram 6, McCullum 7. I think you totally under-rate Oram, basing your opinion solely on his average. That will improve by about 10 over time. Maybe you haven't seen much of him? He's a pretty handy all rounder
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State & Future of New Zealand Cricket
- Thread starter aussie
- Start date
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I've seen quite a bit of him actually - NZ summer of cricket is always shown in Australia for whatever reason. He's a good test batsman and an average test bowler - but quite the opposite at ODI level, being a good ODI bowler and an average ODI batsman. Both his averages and simply how he has looked when he is out there suggest this to me.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Well only Brendon Barrie McCullum is a contender to bat above him and IMO he's even worse.
Matt52
U19 Vice-Captain
Jesse Ryder scored 60 today in a 20/20 game from just 39 deliveries. This whole Oram batting position thing wont matter if Ryder gets into the team to open. because Ryder bowls ten overs basically every game. Oram can drop down to 7 in the batting order because we can get more overs from someone else. He can concentrate on bowling his stock 10 overs and trying to pick up a few wickets for a few runs and then hitting out at the end of the innings. His role in test cricket is very different.
Fiery
Banned
Yeah, I'm not sure why people are talking about him as an opening option. He bats at 3 for Wellington in ODs
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
As I said before, I'm an advocate of:
7 - Oram
8 - McCullum
Based on the fact that I think Styris and Astle are more suited to bowling 10 overs between them than Oram or McCullum are to bat 6.
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Fiery
Banned
Agree that having McCullum at 8 does give great depth to the batting, especially when they're followed by Vettori and Mills.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
It's certainly not OOTQ but IMO if Cairns and Parore do the job, you should expect Oram and McCullum to do it, too, even though neither are as good (Oram, as I mention, IMO only by a pretty small amount) as their predecessors.
Matt52
U19 Vice-Captain
He has only batted 3 for the last few games and I am not sure why. He has always been a one day opener. For NZ under 19 he opened, and throughout his entire domestic career he has opened. He used to open the batting for CD a while ago with Craig Spearman, and when he changed to Wellington he continued opening. Thats why we are talking about him as an opener...because thats what he is. I read in an article that he wants to open in one dayers because thats where he has always batted and thats where he enjoys batting the most.
Im guessing fiery hasnt followed domestic cricket in NZ over the last few years, anyone that has would know Ryder was an opener. He opened the batting again in todays match.
Fiery
Banned
McCullum's a better ODI player than Parore ever was
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Eh? That's why he barely averages 20, is it? While Parore averaged in the 30s and high 20s for much of his career?
McCullum might look better than Parore ever did, and might well end-up being a better batsman in the longer game, but there's no way he's as good in ODIs now as Parore was for most of his career. And given the amount of ODIs McCullum's got through now, I find an improvement far more unlikely than likely.
McCullum might look better than Parore ever did, and might well end-up being a better batsman in the longer game, but there's no way he's as good in ODIs now as Parore was for most of his career. And given the amount of ODIs McCullum's got through now, I find an improvement far more unlikely than likely.
Fiery
Banned
Don't twist averages Richard...Parore averaged 25. McCullum's strike in ODI's is 78, Parore's was 68 which is poor for a wicket-keeper-batsman these days. McCullum is capable of 25 ball 50s which is something Parore was not. McCullum is still very young and early in his career. I'm betting his average will improve by at least 10 and he will go down as one of the all-time greats by the time his career is finished in 10-15 years
Fiery
Banned
To be honest I haven't taken a lot of notice of batting positions in domestic cricket since they took NZ 1st class-cricket off Cricinfo so I stand corrected on that. I knew that he had opened but not quite as regularly as that. This year he has batted at 3 or 4 all season though not just for "the last few games" like you said
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
No twisting of anything required - after 117 ODIs, Parore averaged over 30. In his last 62 he averaged 15. Simple as. No changing either of those things.
Yes, his strike-rate wasn't the best, but slow runs are better than no runs even in ODIs.
I know perfectly well that you think The World of McCullum, you've said it enough times, but the simple fact of the matter is that, capable of one 25-ball 50 every 90 games or so, he's currently nowhere near the level Parore achieved for much of his career. Maybe McCullum's ODI average will go up. If so, I'm sure you'll be delighted. Me, however, I'm not going to expect that at all. McCullum may still be young but he's certainly not early in his career any more, he's played a good deal and there's a perfectly conceivable chance he's shown us all he's got.
Tell me - if some 20-year-old wicketkeeper-batsman appeared next season and started scoring centuries in the top-order and managing a 50-plus average, would you start thinking about having McCullum replaced should his current form continue?
Fiery
Banned
OK, you can reopen this thread in 10 years if I'm wrong. "If some 20-year-old wicketkeeper-batsman appeared next season and started scoring centuries in the top-order and managing a 50-plus average" then yes McCullum would remain in the side. If the guy was a better keeper then I would keep McCullum as a specialist batsman and tell him to concentrate on that.
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Fiery
Banned
Maybe not Taylor but probably ahead of Ryder and Fulton at the moment and in the future there will be spots open with retirement of Astle, Fleming and StyrisYou'd pick McCullum as a specialist batsman ahead of Taylor, Ryder, Fulton, etc.?
