The Baconator
International Vice-Captain
i cant think of a better no.3 in the world but i do think fleming is a better captain
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Ricky Ponting...
- Thread starter Zeke
- Start date
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
Be born in Australia, I'd guess.PY said:
Hold on a minute, you think its nothing to do with the captaincy but I do.PY said:
The captain cant ask for his players to produce if he himself dosent. Think back to why Lara and Tendulkar lost the captaincy, or if you like compare the batting of Ponting, Ganguly, Fleming, Inzamam and I'm sure you will see the difference between Vaughan and the leading captains.
In this where Zimbabwe defeated England Vaughan gets outsmarted by Streak
[And while Zimbabwe were enjoying a lap of honour after the game, Vaughan would have been ruing a poor first innings, in which England scored a dismal 191. It was a brave decision from Streak to bowl, but Ray Price (1 for 20) and Douglas Marillier (1 for 30) justified it with a controlled display of slow bowling from which England could not break free from.]
In this loss to the West Indies the reporter puts the loss down to Vaughans dismal batting and his safety first mindset.
[The presence of both Vaughan and Trescothick at the top of England's order has been a bone of contention throughout this series, and in Vaughan's case, it has almost certainly hindered his lazy-flair approach. But maybe, just maybe, the semblance of stability in England's middle order could tempt him back out of that crippling safety-first mindset.]
If that doesnt convince you I can supply plenty more.
I guess your the one with rose tinted glasses Marc71178
And Neil if Vaughan was born in Australia he would never get a game even in State cricket, hes just not good enough.
[And while Zimbabwe were enjoying a lap of honour after the game, Vaughan would have been ruing a poor first innings, in which England scored a dismal 191. It was a brave decision from Streak to bowl, but Ray Price (1 for 20) and Douglas Marillier (1 for 30) justified it with a controlled display of slow bowling from which England could not break free from.]
In this loss to the West Indies the reporter puts the loss down to Vaughans dismal batting and his safety first mindset.
[The presence of both Vaughan and Trescothick at the top of England's order has been a bone of contention throughout this series, and in Vaughan's case, it has almost certainly hindered his lazy-flair approach. But maybe, just maybe, the semblance of stability in England's middle order could tempt him back out of that crippling safety-first mindset.]
If that doesnt convince you I can supply plenty more.
I guess your the one with rose tinted glasses Marc71178
And Neil if Vaughan was born in Australia he would never get a game even in State cricket, hes just not good enough.
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
shouldn't you chose the side than the captain, rather than the captain than the side...
PY
International Coach
But does that have anything to do with him as a captain ie his rapport with the players, his field places, his bowling changes, his dealings with the media etc etc.Scallywag said:
Granted he hasn't performed as a ODI batsman as of yet. But are you only talking about ODI? We conveniently have moved away from captaincy in general which includes Tests where Vaughan's record as Test captain rivals Ponting's.
(That's a joke). Having said that though, Vaughan's record of 13/3/3 (W/D/L) is pretty good.Age, are you saying that Vaughan shouldn't be picked because he doesn't warrant his place alone without the armband?
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
in the ODI's no i dont think he does - and 50 matches is a fair few to prove yourself in that version of the game.... still waiting.....
PY
International Coach
Interesting you've been using those things as examples previously of how Ponting has been good as captain because he's had the right attitude and he's done the right things at the right time. Surely anyone could have done those things?
Captaincy is all about the form a player is in is it? Right, I'll remember that one.
Captaincy is all about the form a player is in is it? Right, I'll remember that one.
Yes they could, but the big difference is Ponting can do the captaincy duties and perform on the field and set the example for the rest of the team as well.PY said:
When Lara captained WI indies his ave dropped from 42 to 35 in 74 games and when Tendulkar captained India his ave dropped from 45 to 37 in 73 games.
Ponting has increased his ave from 42 to 43 while captain after 73 games.
Marc71178 in his wisdom believes that anybody could captain Australia, but if you think about it Australias batting would be in big trouble if you replaced Ponting with Vaughan. No other player could lead the Australian team like Ponting does.
You should remember that because the selectors allways do. Just ask Lara or Tendulkar.PY said:
And one more point to ponder: If the English selectors had the choice of Ponting or Vaughan to be captain of their side who do you think they would select.