England

[Tom Halsey]

And let's not forget the Indian tour to England in 2002. 4 Tests, level 1-1. India dominated England in the 3rd Test, England dominated India in the 1st Test, and the 2nd and 4th were comfortably drawn. One could argue that, based on their status as tourists and general poor reputation as travelers, that India were the de facto winners of that tour.

Disagree.

1st Test: We dominated matters.

2nd Test: We had the better of it, and we could have won, right up to the last hour, where the run chase would have required too risky run rates.

3rd Test: You dominated, not arguing there.

4th Test: Comfortable draw for you, not arguing there.

 

[Swervy]

a team losing 1-0 and drawing the home series 1-1 should be a better team tahn the other . so i guess even though the result is 3-0 in W.I
W.I Is a better side

eh????

The England vs West Indies thing...well I think that England might be a slightly better team talent wise,but are playing really really well.WI's are playing poorly and with no confidence...hence the 3-nil score line (so far).

One famous example a series scoreline not truely reflecting the standard of play is the 1981 Ashes series won by England 3-1. For huge parts of that series,Australia were by far the superior team. (First two tests,and 80% of the third test Australia were crushing England,Australia by rights should have won the 4th,and had England in allsorts of trouble in the 5th).

Australia were on paper a better team (one weakness being no Greg Chappell),and played better cricket for most of the series, and yet lost 3-1 (thanks to Botham...oh and Willis for a morning..and Dilley for a couple of hours batting)

So it can happen...and in my opinion, to a lesser extent,England appeared to be the better team in both the India series.

 

[marc71178]

a team losing 1-0 and drawing the home series 1-1 should be a better team tahn the other .

Over 7 Tests - 2-1 suggests the teams are fairly even - certainly can't comment for certain as to one being better than the other.

 

[Lions81]

Over 7 Tests - 2-1 suggests the teams are fairly even - certainly can't comment for certain as to one being better than the other.

I don't think 2-1 suggests the teams are fairly even. It suggests the team that won 2 is better than the team that won 1. Otherwise, wins and losses have no purpose.

 

[marc71178]

I don't think 2-1 suggests the teams are fairly even. It suggests the team that won 2 is better than the team that won 1. Otherwise, wins and losses have no purpose.

So what about the fact that in more than half the games neither team was strong enough to force the win?

And if you analyse the 4 draws, which side was on top in each game?

 

[luckyeddie]

At the end of the day, a win is a win - even if for the larger part of the game such a result is undeserved.

The '81 series has been mentioned - believe you me, this current series in the West Indies could quite easily be 2-1 to the home side but for a few short periods when England made remarkable breakthroughs and the West Indians went belly-up.

But it isn't, so I've just wasted 2 minutes typing this.

 

[Lions81]

At the end of the day, a win is a win - even if for the larger part of the game such a result is undeserved.

The '81 series has been mentioned - believe you me, this current series in the West Indies could quite easily be 2-1 to the home side but for a few short periods when England made remarkable breakthroughs and the West Indians went belly-up.

But it isn't, so I've just wasted 2 minutes typing this.

Cheers. And I was concerned for a second that our concepts of winning and losing were about to be turned on their heads. :P

 

[luckyeddie]

Cheers. And I was concerned for a second that our concepts of winning and losing were about to be turned on their heads. :P

England are famous for entertaining 'Glorious defeat' - the Dunkirk spirit, Rorke's Drift, The Charge of the Light Brigade (ha. What a farce that was) and so on - but for me the sweet, sweet taste of victory (preferably over the Aussies) is something to be savoured.

Don't you envy me? I can remember 81 as if it was yesterday.

 

[Lions81]

England are famous for entertaining 'Glorious defeat' - the Dunkirk spirit, Rorke's Drift, The Charge of the Light Brigade (ha. What a farce that was) and so on - but for me the sweet, sweet taste of victory (preferably over the Aussies) is something to be savoured.

Don't you envy me? I can remember 81 as if it was yesterday.

To be honest, I do envy you. I'm not old enough to have seen the West Indies in action with all their fast bowlers, and as a true fan of sheer pace and a desperate wannabe myself, I would have loved it.

 

[luckyeddie]

To be honest, I do envy you. I'm not old enough to have seen the West Indies in action with all their fast bowlers, and as a true fan of sheer pace and a desperate wannabe myself, I would have loved it.

Oh, I go back a long way. My earliest cricket memory is of the 1965 South Africans - that's how I fell in love with the game. A wonderful Wednesday afternoon at the St Lawrence Ground, Canterbury, a strawberry ice cream, egg sandwiches and a double century from Graeme Pollock.

I have some absolutely wonderful memories - numerous Ashes tours, the previous time we won a series in the West Indies, Sobers hitting six sixes at Swansea (it was covered live on TV, believe it or not - and it was just a county match, such was the effect Sobers had on the game in England)

More to the point, I love telling people my memories too.

 

[Lions81]

Oh, I go back a long way. My earliest cricket memory is of the 1965 South Africans - that's how I fell in love with the game. A wonderful Wednesday afternoon at the St Lawrence Ground, Canterbury, a strawberry ice cream, egg sandwiches and a double century from Graeme Pollock.

I have some absolutely wonderful memories - numerous Ashes tours, the previous time we won a series in the West Indies, Sobers hitting six sixes at Swansea (it was covered live on TV, believe it or not - and it was just a county match, such was the effect Sobers had on the game in England)

More to the point, I love telling people my memories too.

Well I certainly would love to hear them! I was born and raised in the U.S., so my exposure to cricket is extraordinarily limited. Only now with the proliferation of satellite TV and all these websites televising cricket can I see any. Also when I have gone back to India for vacations. It's really thanks to the internet that I know what little I know.

 

[badgerhair]

Sobers hitting six sixes at Swansea (it was covered live on TV, believe it or not - and it was just a county match, such was the effect Sobers had on the game in England)

I'm glad you said that. I have this memory of seeing the 6 sixes live on TV, but then I thought I couldn't have, and it must just have been on the news.

But of course, now you come to mention it, the only way it would have been on the TV news is if it had been covered live, so yes, I saw it too.

I came in a little bit after you: I broke my collarbone in 1967 and was off school for a bit. And of course back then, we didn't have daytime TV, so an injured lad was quite grateful for the Test Matches since he couldn't run about. And I became an addict.

It would have been the next year that I was, for reasons best not gone into, sitting in the school science lab watching some water distilling, and read the book which I think probably changed my life: it was "The Tied Test", an account of the 1961 Aus-WI series. I'd never read anything so exciting, and I think that planted the seed which made me the wreck I am today.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[SpaceMonkey]

At the end of the day, a win is a win - even if for the larger part of the game such a result is undeserved.

The '81 series has been mentioned - believe you me, this current series in the West Indies could quite easily be 2-1 to the home side but for a few short periods when England made remarkable breakthroughs and the West Indians went belly-up.

But it isn't, so I've just wasted 2 minutes typing this.

It took you 2 mins to type that? damn old age must be slowing you down

 

[tooextracool]

I don't think 2-1 suggests the teams are fairly even. It suggests the team that won 2 is better than the team that won 1. Otherwise, wins and losses have no purpose.

u havent looked at the games that were drawn and rained off. the fact is that england played on level terms with india throughout both the series(better in most games and then shocking in the others) and a 2-2 score line would have definetly been the fair result. but some teams are lucky as india were and it will go down in the record books as a 2-1 net victory for india

To be honest, I do envy you. I'm not old enough to have seen the West Indies in action with all their fast bowlers, and as a true fan of sheer pace and a desperate wannabe myself, I would have loved it.

well said!

 

[Tom Halsey]

It would have bored me - no spinners.

I prefer watching quality spin over quality pace.

 

[Lions81]

u havent looked at the games that were drawn and rained off. the fact is that england played on level terms with india throughout both the series(better in most games and then shocking in the others) and a 2-2 score line would have definetly been the fair result. but some teams are lucky as india were and it will go down in the record books as a 2-1 net victory for india

Ah, well Machiavelli says that luck favors the bold. But again, we won't convince one another that the other is wrong!

And sorry Tom, but I have to agree with tooextracool and disagree with you! Anyone can just turn his wrists or fingers, its another matter to give it to the batsmen at 95 mph :P

 

[Swervy]

Anyone can just turn his wrists or fingers, its another matter to give it to the batsmen at 95 mph :P

that is a joke isnt it????

 

[Swervy]

how about this one..if England win the series 4-0 (very possible) and the series Pak vs Ind is a draw ....or India win 2-1 (assuming that Pakistan will win thies current test)...England will be 3rd in the ICC Test Rankings

 

[Swervy]

and if England win all the ODI's vs West Indies (I think they are playing 7)..England will be ranked 2nd in the world in one dayers

 

[tooextracool]

and if England win all the ODI's vs West Indies (I think they are playing 7)..England will be ranked 2nd in the world in one dayers

ok WI arent that bad an ODI team....to lose 7 consecutive ODI matches u must either be bangladesh or u must be playing against australia. gayle,hinds etc(unfortunately that also includes trescothick before he fails in the test series against NZ) become very effective in the ODis and it will definetly go down to the wire .