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South Africa team selection

GRAB

First Class Debutant
Wonder who will play in the utterly pointless T20i? Guessing Morris will get a trundle, perhaps Fudge too?

Although Ngidi/Rabada/Steyn is looking the best ODI pace trio around at the moment, I would like to see the back-up get some practice in case of injuries. Wish there was at least an A side L/O series before the World Cup. B. Hendricks's four-day form must make him very close to being back in the side - left arm, decent gas, and very good death bowler, but there aren't enough games for him to get a shot unless an injury-pocalypse happens...
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Think it will be the latter but not sure if JP is back for Pakistan series so Markram may get a chance to convince.

Still not sure Pretorius did any more than what Phehlukwayo has been doing. We still haven't seen him contribute with the bat and he hasn't scored runs in a long time.
But based on current performance are we really looking to play Klaasens over Markram? Has Klaasens done enough? Particularly who would likely provide a more stable base?
 

SeamUp

International Coach
But based on current performance are we really looking to play Klaasens over Markram? Has Klaasens done enough? Particularly who would likely provide a more stable base?
There is that possibility still. Markram is a better batsman of that there is no doubt and maybe in England that will be the way to go. Want to see Klaasen a few more times though.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Wonder who will play in the utterly pointless T20i? Guessing Morris will get a trundle, perhaps Fudge too?

Although Ngidi/Rabada/Steyn is looking the best ODI pace trio around at the moment, I would like to see the back-up get some practice in case of injuries. Wish there was at least an A side L/O series before the World Cup. B. Hendricks's four-day form must make him very close to being back in the side - left arm, decent gas, and very good death bowler, but there aren't enough games for him to get a shot unless an injury-pocalypse happens...
They will definitely play the other 4 who didn't play I reckon.
Behardien for Hendricks
Morris for Steyn
Shamsi for Tahir
Phehlukwayo for KG/Ngidi

Always felt Beuran is a better FC bowler. But like many of the older SA A guys I am not sure if they quite international level. You know what their ceiling is already. Think he is same category as Paterson/Frylinck/Dala etc

Where do you see these SA A guys ? Team results haven't been great with the older players in for a while. Not a lot of them are smashing it in the 4-day comp this year.

Vd Dussen been playing T20 comps in Canada/Windies and now Frylinck/Jonker join in with Bangladesh

SA A players (some more entrenched in Proteas set-up than others)

Batsmen
Pieter Malan (29), Sarel Erwee (29), Reeza Hendricks (29), Theunis de Bruyn (26), Farhaan Behardien (35), Zubayr Hamza (23), Senuran Muthusamy (24), Rassie van der Dussen (29), Christiaan Jonker (32), Khaya Zondo (28), Gihahn Cloete (26)
Keepers
Heinrich Klaasen (27) , Rudi Second (29)
Batting All-rounders
Wiaan Mulder (20), Dwaine Pretorius (29)
Spinners
Dane Piedt (28), Shaun von Berg (32)
Seamers
Dane Paterson (29), Junior Dala (29), Beuran Hendricks (28), Duanne Olivier (26), Anrich Nortje (25), Sisanda Magala (27), Robbie Frylinck (34)
 
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StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Klaasens, de Bruyn, Hamza, Muthusamy, Mulder, Nortje have immediate potential and chance to push themselves into or remain in the national setup provide they take opportunities and give a good account of themselves.

Cloete, Hendricks, Olivier; Piedt need to do something very big to force themselves into a position of opportunity.

The rest I doubt have much chance in getting an opportunity.

Otherwise we are looking at the <25 guys (which includes Hamza, Mulder, Muthusamy) for the future, i.e. from 2019/2020 season onwards. Dupavillon hopefully stays fit and needs special mention.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Klaasens, de Bruyn, Hamza, Muthusamy, Mulder, Nortje have immediate potential and chance to push themselves into or remain in the national setup provide they take opportunities and give a good account of themselves.

Cloete, Hendricks, Olivier; Piedt need to do something very big to force themselves into a position of opportunity.

The rest I doubt have much chance in getting an opportunity.

Otherwise we are looking at the <25 guys (which includes Hamza, Mulder, Muthusamy) for the future, i.e. from 2019/2020 season onwards. Dupavillon hopefully stays fit and needs special mention.
With you Stephen.

Muthusamy doesn't convince me enough with the bat which is a pity. Imagine his spin-bowling all rounder abilities if he could convince more.

Also noticed that Hamza & Mulder who are our most likely test replacements for Amla/Faf not in Mzansi SL and then our 2 best 100 making teenage prodigies since de Kock (Breetzke/van Tonder) also not there. Blessing in disguise.

A player I want to watch in Mzansi to give me my piece of mind is Janneman Malan. Couldn't convince myself to think future Protea when I previously saw him. But there is loads of talk. Not sure if it is just down to his averages on his cricinfo page.

Another is Anrich Nortje. Come on leaps and bounds. Supposedly Prince wanted him for Cobras before Bokako. He runs in and hits the deck and tries to make things happen. He is behind Olivier for test reckoning but I wonder for how much longer.
 
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StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
I've got big worries over QDK at the moment, particularly with tests. I know he is a talent but he is not progressing, been in the setup since 2013/2014 had a great start and then got found out a bit. But he has not really sorted himself out and kicked on.

Right now in tests QDK avgs 36 overall, (Boucher avg 30 at end of career!); In the last 12 months (10 matches) QDK has avg'ed 20 with no 100's and avg 28 in the last 24 months. That is not good enough for his talent and for a no 6. He is right now living on his reputation and career start, particularly with the no of wk/batsmen currently pushing for position at FC level. I truly think he needs to start scoring some serious runs, we do not need another Duminy in the team. I don't know what the problem is but there is a definite issue, whether technically or mentally. And I'm tired of people saying just let him play his natural game, or he is an instinctive player etc. My feeling is he needs to sort himself out quickly, SA need him but we also need to trust he can do the job. The ODI level is less of a problem but he has also only avg'ed 32 the last 12 months.

For me right now, is his place secure and/or should it be secure because of the other uncertainties in the bat line up? We can't keep talking about him as one of the 3/4 guys who is the future after the elder statesmen retire, if he is not performing.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
https://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/faf-t20-world-cup-will-be-my-last-20181116

Brisbane - South African captain Faf du Plessis said on Friday the Twenty20 World Cup in Australia in two years' time will be his last.

The 34-year-old, who has led his country in two World T20 campaigns, in 2014 and 2016, is keen to play a third but will then step aside.

"The T20 World Cup in 2020 is something I'm really looking forward to. I think right now that will probably be the last tournament for me," he said in Brisbane ahead of a one-off T20 against Australia on Saturday.
So that kind of answers something we've been wondering about, but I suppose the question now becomes whether he'll continue playing in all three formats for all that time.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Also possibly means there is a chance he will remain for India away and England home for tests which was always the ideal swansong for a few.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
I've got big worries over QDK at the moment, particularly with tests. I know he is a talent but he is not progressing, been in the setup since 2013/2014 had a great start and then got found out a bit. But he has not really sorted himself out and kicked on.

Right now in tests QDK avgs 36 overall, (Boucher avg 30 at end of career!); In the last 12 months (10 matches) QDK has avg'ed 20 with no 100's and avg 28 in the last 24 months. That is not good enough for his talent and for a no 6. He is right now living on his reputation and career start, particularly with the no of wk/batsmen currently pushing for position at FC level. I truly think he needs to start scoring some serious runs, we do not need another Duminy in the team. I don't know what the problem is but there is a definite issue, whether technically or mentally. And I'm tired of people saying just let him play his natural game, or he is an instinctive player etc. My feeling is he needs to sort himself out quickly, SA need him but we also need to trust he can do the job. The ODI level is less of a problem but he has also only avg'ed 32 the last 12 months.

For me right now, is his place secure and/or should it be secure because of the other uncertainties in the bat line up? We can't keep talking about him as one of the 3/4 guys who is the future after the elder statesmen retire, if he is not performing.
You are not wrong with your frustration. When players like this come around once in a blue moon then you got to make sure they make the most of their talent.

The number 6 role didn't work and he needs to be challenged now. Whether that is giving him responsibility with leadership which they seem to be doing or give him some direction. The direction doesn't have to be harsh by taking away his attacking flair and freedom. I feel that Neil McKenzie knows his game pretty well. I hope QdK doesn't forget to give him a ring just to help clear his head.

Saying that he is still is clearly the best keeper and keeper/batsmen in SA even with the under-performing output. I think of his knock in Durban v Australia & in Hobart. But it definitely isn't enough and we want to see more 100s which he can still get from #7
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
You are not wrong with your frustration. When players like this come around once in a blue moon then you got to make sure they make the most of their talent.

The number 6 role didn't work and he needs to be challenged now. Whether that is giving him responsibility with leadership which they seem to be doing or give him some direction. The direction doesn't have to be harsh by taking away his attacking flair and freedom. I feel that Neil McKenzie knows his game pretty well. I hope QdK doesn't forget to give him a ring just to help clear his head.

Saying that he is still is clearly the best keeper and keeper/batsmen in SA even with the under-performing output. I think of his knock in Durban v Australia & in Hobart. But it definitely isn't enough and we want to see more 100s which he can still get from #7
Is that really true? We have a number of wk batsmen pushing for selection. Just mentioned Verreynne in the other thread? I do worry about playing him at 7 and expecting 100's with our long tail? It would be ideal if we can keep Philander at 8 for awhile. Strangely enough some of his best innings have come between him and Bavuma doing rear guard actions from 6/7. I don't want him dropped, I'm just getting frustrated and while I'm sure he is trying sometimes he gets out in such casual ways... aaargh!
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Is that really true? We have a number of wk batsmen pushing for selection. Just mentioned Verreynne in the other thread? I do worry about playing him at 7 and expecting 100's with our long tail? It would be ideal if we can keep Philander at 8 for awhile. Strangely enough some of his best innings have come between him and Bavuma doing rear guard actions from 6/7. I don't want him dropped, I'm just getting frustrated and while I'm sure he is trying sometimes he gets out in such casual ways... aaargh!
You answered your own question. Verreynne needs big runs & 100s & while I think his keeping is good - QdK is still better through experience over a number of years standing up to spin. QdK obviously has that x-factor that is hard to teach but each player has their own strengths so in a few years I think Kyle could challenge. Verreynne is always looking busy which I like. Typical little keeper with cuts, sweeps etc love it. The promising stat in his favour is in his young 4-day career he has chased well in 4th innings chases.

Klaasen has ability though but struggled to consistently transform it but it is harsh considering his role. He has shown flashes. I think his keeping is ok and on the upward curve since working with Boucher. He could play tests but I see him becoming a limited overs specialist.
 
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StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
I'm just worried about ending up with a Duminy situation again with regards to QDK.... highly talented that never kicks on, but keeps getting to much rope.... hopefully my concerns, sooner rather than later, are voided.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Share your concerns Stephen.

It isn't red lights yet but he really needs challenging and responsibility. Of that there is no doubt.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Not going to be harsh as it is a T10 but the young QdK hits off-spin inside out over extra cover and makes it look easy. It now seems to slow his innings to a hault and its mental just like you say it became with JP.

Last time he went to domestic T20 he hardly scored a run, he better make the most of his time with CT Blitz.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Immie's 50-over record v each team at WC

Windies 26 @ 12.69 (4.54 RPO)
Sri Lanka 24 @ 15.79 (4.12)
New Zealand 17 @ 26.76 (4.25)
Pakistan 13 @ 26.92 (4.61)
Bangladesh 9 @ 28.56 (4.55)
England 12 @ 33.17 (6.06)
Australia 17 @ 38.24 (4.81)
India 10 @ 51.80 (5.53)
 

SeamUp

International Coach
This is starting to sound like the last WC where we had to rely on Behardien and Duminy to get through 10 overs. Here we are 4 years on :D

The stars are aligning for the Proteas in most respects just 10 ODIs out from the 2019 World Cup, but the issue of who will bat at No 7 remains the biggest headache for skipper Faf du Plessis and the national selectors.

One thing we know now is that Du Plessis is backing the long tail of Dale Steyn, Kagiso Rabada, Lungi Ngidi and Imran Tahir.

It is a balance that obviously gives the Proteas serious power in the bowling department, but it leaves them short in depth of quality batting, especially if they produce an all-too-familiar top order wobble in a crunch World Cup fixture.

As a result, Du Plessis says the importance of runs at No 7 solidly outweighs the need for wickets.

With that criteria now set, things do not look good for Andile Phehlukwayo.

While his bowling has never been questioned, the 22-year-old has not shown enough mettle with the bat despite boasting a respectable, albeit skewed ODI average of 26.90 with 10 not outs from 21 innings.

Phehlukwayo's best effort with the bat in Proteas colours remains the 42* he scored in a match-winning effort against Australia in Durban two years ago.

Dwaine Pretorius, meanwhile, bowled well in South Africa's 2-1 ODI series win Australia, but he too has not done anything significant enough to convince selectors that he is the right man to get the job done with the bat.

Wiaan Mulder is out injured, Chris Morris has only recently returned from injury and Vernon Philander could feature in the five ODIs against Pakistan in the second half of January.

The other option, and one that is seeming increasingly possible listening to Du Plessis, is to play seven specialist batsmen and give JP Duminy more of a responsibility with the ball.

The top six at this stage looks likely to be: Hashim Amla, Quinton de Kock, Aiden Markram, Faf du Plessis, Duminy and David Miller.

Throwing in another specialist batsman - Heinrich Klaasen, for example - would give the Proteas some much-needed 'oomph' in their batting, but it would mean that Duminy and probably even Markram would have to bowl.

"We are possibly considering the fact that we might need our part-time bowlers to play a bigger role so we can have seven of our best batters playing together. There are a few combinations that we are looking at," Du Plessis said.

"If you have JP back then he can bowl 10 overs, but he offers you at least five, so you're looking for five more overs from somewhere, even if it's someone like Aiden Markram bowling a bit.

"The important thing becomes runs because playing in England you might find yourself three down. With a bowling allrounder at No 7 you are potentially exposing yourself to something that can go wrong."

With that all being said, a player like Farhaan Behardien might be starting to fancy his chances.

Now 35 and with 59 ODIs under his belt, Behardien has frustrated a lot of people over the years given his inability to come good in pressure situations.

But, considering the current balance of this Proteas side, he might be the answer to a headache that is starting to linger for the brains trust.

A seasoned finisher at domestic level, Behardien's batting is significantly better than his bowling. But, if needed, he could chip in with a few overs.

Reading between the lines while speaking to Du Plessis on Monday, that seems exactly the type of player the Proteas are looking for to complete their World Cup puzzle.

"We know with our four-bowler attack that there is enough x-factor in our bowling, but it is also a long tail," Du Plessis said.

"We will look at the strength of the allrounder from a batting point of view."

The Pakistan series could end up being a big one for 'Fudgie'.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
This is starting to sound like the last WC where we had to rely on Behardien and Duminy to get through 10 overs. Here we are 4 years on :D
I mentioned Behardien as a possibility a few pages back if Mulder could not play...... I also think he could fit in well with Duminy/Miller with quick singles/twos at back of an innings. Desperate times and all that.....

Any of the 6 choices -Andile, Morris, Behardien, Dwaine, Philander, Mulder- has an opportunity. How about somebody like Smuts.... no 7 is open to anybody that can turn their arm over and hit a long ball, just have to show some form.
 

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