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Rank Australia's opening batsmen of all time and include a prediction of where...

watson

Banned
Hayden & Simpson IMO are the best two and would be my choices in the AUS ATXI.

Openers have been such a strong point through AUS history has everyone knows, they could give a team a few openers - because its really all about subjectivity, a bit ideological opinion on how you separate between Trumper, Langer, Taylor, Lawry, Morris, Hassett, S Barnes, Slater, Warner.

Then of course middle-order bats who were very useful openers like Redpath, Boon, Katich.

Ponsford & Woodfull get low marks because they had their struggles vs pace in bodyline.
Woodfull averaged 33 after his 5 Bodyline Tests. No centuries, but he did make 3 fifties including a 73 not out in Adelaide. Given the pressure that he must have been under then I reckon that this us a pretty good effort. In fact the only other batsman who did better were Bradman and McCabe. I don't place too much emphasis on Len Darling because he only played 2 Tests.

Ponsford made a really gutzy 85 during the boil-over Test in Adelaide, and in fact it was the equal top score for the match. However, his series average of 23 isn't overly great and seems to back-up the general opinion that his crouching style and poor-ish foot-work were no real match for the English quicks. He was no Stan McCabe.

Cricket Records | The Ashes, 1932/33 | Records | Batting and bowling averages | ESPN Cricinfo

As for Fingleton - he was a stonewaller with a reasonable average. But on the whole he wrote a lot better than he batted. His book 'Masters of Cricket. From Trumper to May' (1958) remains a classic.
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Woodfull averaged 33 after his 5 Bodyline Tests. No centuries, but he did make 3 fifties including a 73 not out in Adelaide. Given the pressure that he must have been under then I reckon that this us a pretty good effort. In fact the only other batsman who did better were Bradman and McCabe. I don't place too much emphasis on Len Darling because he only played 2 Tests.

Ponsford made a really gutzy 85 during the boil-over Test in Adelaide, and in fact it was the equal top score for the match. However, his series average of 23 isn't overly great and seems to back-up the general opinion that his crouching style and poor-ish foot-work were no real match for the English quicks. He was no Stan McCabe.

Cricket Records | The Ashes, 1932/33 | Records | Batting and bowling averages | ESPN Cricinfo

As for Fingleton - he was a stonewaller with a reasonable average. But on the whole he wrote a lot better than he batted. His book 'Masters of Cricket. From Trumper to May' (1958) remains a classic.
Ye fair enough in general, 33 just shows he was respectable in that serious. Speaks to broader argument that I've looked into in the past how how batsmen from the 1900-1939 really were not exposed to high quality pace attacks combinations outside of Bodyline & Gregory/McDonald combo - but that's a whole different topic.

Slater for me has a very curious place in history of AUS openers, his commentary is a bit irritating at times (after starting brightly circa 2000) - but his greatness was not properly fullfilled.

If I were to pick a XI of my favourite players ever, he was would be the first opener I pick & IMO he was easily the most naturally talented AUS opener since Bob Simpson/Bill Lawry era. Taylor, Langer, Hayden would beat him in longevity - but that flair (especially vs good bowling) they never had.

I have a massive soft spot for Slats because more so than his illness & lack of form in the early 2000's cost him a place in the AUS test side - i've always blamed the AUS selectors in the mid 90s for not continuously backing his talent.

When he scored his famous 152 in his second Ashes test @ Lord's 93 - a star was born. He ended his career known more for getting out in the 90s - but after averaging 47 in tests from 1993-1996 - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/7629.html?class=1;spanmax1=1+nov+1996;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=innings facing the usual top 90s bowlers from windies, pak, s africa and holding his own - this man was on the verge to be one of the great AUS openers.

But then just because he played one reckless shot in the only test vs India 1996 - the selectors decided to drop him for for Matt Elliot & Hayden because they were scoring tones of runs in state cricket and a-team matches.

Hayden & Elliot didn't fear well & after 15 months Slater came back, but this axing messed him up mentally make no question about it. He had some good innings after 98, but he was never the same again. Slater not becoming a great because of this is one of the great tragedies of talent going to waste i've always said.
 
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watson

Banned
Here is a couple of minutes of Woodfull and Ponsford opening the innings at Manchester. Just enough to get an idea of their contrasting styles.

 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Does anyone have the dogies of tue two wagga wagga boys after they had played the same number as Warner has?.
Not surprised that no-one responded to this question. Scoring twin centuries helps Warner, what a guy.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
aussie I don't think you can really say Slater's dropping affected him that much, though he did mention it befuddled him in interviews, he came back with a bang. Turned the 7 tons he had scored from 93-96 into 12 after less than 6 months back in the baggy green, including 4 in 6 matches at one point. It was only as the 21st century rolled around that his form got shakey
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
aussie I don't think you can really say Slater's dropping affected him that much, though he did mention it befuddled him in interviews, he came back with a bang. Turned the 7 tons he had scored from 93-96 into 12 after his first 9 matches back. 5 tons in 9 matches not bad. When the 2st century rolled around his form got shakey though
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
aussie I don't think you can really say Slater's dropping affected him that much, though he did mention it befuddled him in interviews, he came back with a bang. Turned the 7 tons he had scored from 93-96 into 12 after less than 6 months back in the baggy green, including 4 in 6 matches at one point. It was only as the 21st century rolled around that his form got shakey
Yea have heard him say many times in interviews it bothered him, how deep was never too sure. However that period they dropped him where guys like Hayden/Elliot struggled vs WI/SA & Ashes 97 - if he had played instead & scored big runs in those series, it wouldhave propelled him to that elite great AUS opener level - regardless of what happened with his form as the 2000s came around.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
yeah that's true, his record against England was sick and if he got to play 6 Ashes tests in '97 he might have ended up an ATG lol

though Elliott had a good series then anyway right? 400+ runs
 

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
Based on how he reacted to the dropping and everything that happened after about 1996 in Slater's career, I'm not convinced he had the mental strength to be an ATG bat. Bell-like career trajectory IMO.
 

Spikey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Slater one of the unluckier people in modern Australian cricket history - he got dropped mid-series/midsummer after a victory for form reasons! (although there's debate about that I guess...)

pretty rough too, an average of 34 in his 16 21st century tests obv ain't great but Hayden had been going just as bad as him up until that point in the Ashes.

edit oh wait! we lost the fourth test! nvm slater you deserved to get dropped.
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
yeah that's true, his record against England was sick and if he got to play 6 Ashes tests in '97 he might have ended up an ATG lol

though Elliott had a good series then anyway right? 400+ runs
More so runs vs WI & home away vs SA.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Based on how he reacted to the dropping and everything that happened after about 1996 in Slater's career, I'm not convinced he had the mental strength to be an ATG bat. Bell-like career trajectory IMO.
Hmm not sure how you are seeing a Bel-like career trajectory similarity TBF.

When he came back after his axing in IND 98, he was fairly comparable to his 93-96 until NZ 2000 (Wellington century to be specific), then he went downhill until being dropped in Ashes 01.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
I used to think it was laughable to compare Warner with Australia's great past openers and to consider putting him anywhere near that company.

I don't any more.
 

watson

Banned
Warner averages 68 against Steyn and Morkel (6 Tests), but 'only' 44 against Anderson and Broad (11 Tests).

So it seems that if you bowl at pace to Warner then you must swing the ball as well.
 

adub

International Captain
Warner averages 68 against Steyn and Morkel (6 Tests), but 'only' 44 against Anderson and Broad (11 Tests).

So it seems that if you bowl at pace to Warner then you must swing the ball as well.
True, but when he got through them he'd throw it away with a hoik against Moeen. I reckon that guy is gone for good now. He's got the taste for batting long and I reckon he likes it. He'll still go at 80+ sr but now he can get past the middle session drinks break. In this mood he'd have converted 3 of those 50s from the ashes which is what he was doing against SA. Movement will trouble anyone, Warner's no exception, but because he scores so fast the window to get him before you're on the back foot is small. If he is now going on to post Daddy hundreds once he gets in he's going to inflict some real pain.
 

Debris

International 12th Man
Warner averages 68 against Steyn and Morkel (6 Tests), but 'only' 44 against Anderson and Broad (11 Tests).

So it seems that if you bowl at pace to Warner then you must swing the ball as well.
Or that small sample sizes give you some weird statistics. Has Steyn stopped swinging the ball?
 

TheJediBrah

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Slater one of the unluckier people in modern Australian cricket history - he got dropped mid-series/midsummer after a victory for form reasons! (although there's debate about that I guess...)

pretty rough too, an average of 34 in his 16 21st century tests obv ain't great but Hayden had been going just as bad as him up until that point in the Ashes.

edit oh wait! we lost the fourth test! nvm slater you deserved to get dropped.
Yeah but Hayden was kind of coming off one of the best tours of India anyone has ever had
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Did that Indian tour end both Fleming and Funky Miller's careers? And essentially Slats' was on life support.

Brutal
 

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