Pick your nation's 24 best ODI players throughout history

[CaptainGrumpy]

It's one thing to say certain players "have to be there" but there is only space for 24 guys. The question, then, is who gets dropped from the squad of 24.

Probably Chris Harris, Adam Parore, Danny Morrison and Stephen Fleming have the weakest claims of the 24 I listed.

+ John Wright and Tim Southee for weakest claims. Isn't Harris reasonably safe for now?

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Agree that Wright has a weak claim. Definitely weaker than Harris, who averaged about the same as Wright with the bat but was an allrounder.

Southee might not have an ATG claim right now, but for the simulator I'm thinking a few years ahead and he'd definitely be ahead of Pringle at least by then.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Agree that Wright has a weak claim. Definitely weaker than Harris, who averaged about the same as Wright with the bat but was an allrounder.

Southee might not have an ATG claim right now, but for the simulator I'm thinking a few years ahead and he'd definitely be ahead of Pringle at least by then.

I hope you're right about Southee overtaking Pringle. Bodes well to the future.

There was no criticism of you in these posts. Cannot please everyone with selections. I really like your ODI based threads and input.

I do not think of ODI cricket as JAMODI. I think it has a rich history and adds value to the total sum of the game of cricket.

The game does not start and finish with test cricket for mine. So keep up the good posts/threads.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Cheers. I didn't think there was any criticism of me. I started this thread because I want my simulator to be as good as possible so I need a correct appraisal of the ATG players. This can only be done by tapping minds other than mine. So thanks, yourself, for your input.

 

[NZTailender]

It's one thing to say certain players "have to be there" but there is only space for 24 guys. The question, then, is who gets dropped from the squad of 24.

Probably Chris Harris, Adam Parore, Danny Morrison and Stephen Fleming have the weakest claims of the 24 I listed.

I think you need to apply some kind of games played cut off, because I wouldn't necessarily have Boult or Ronchi there yet.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I think you need to apply some kind of games played cut off, because I wouldn't necessarily have Boult or Ronchi there yet.

Ronchi has already achieved so much with big scores -170 against Sri Lanka and 99 against SA. His runs scored (he is fairly low on the not outs) at his strike rate put him past the likes of Ian Smith as a wicket keeper bat, for mine.

Boult got us to a WC final, our only one, and has been ranked at one time the second best ODI bowler in the world. Hard to leave him out. Very hard indeed.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

There is sort of a games played cut off, but you can't leave out Boult and Ronchi and include Turner, who played 34 games. Anyway, like I said I'm thinking from a perspective a few years ahead here, and if Boult is ranked 2 or 3 in the world right now and has other two years of staying up and around that level (and he will, unless he gets injured), he'll definitely be ahead of Morrison and Pringle, for example.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Also, bear in mind that from a simulator perspective, an ATG 24 is going to have so much cake in it that you need some pure icing players. There's no real need to pick a low strike-rate no. 6 and 7 if your top five has Guptill, Astle, Williamson, Taylor and Crowe in it. This puts players like Anderson and Ronchi at a premium.

 

[NZTailender]

Ronchi has already achieved so much with big scores -170 against Sri Lanka and 99 against SA. His runs scored (he is fairly low on the not outs) at his strike rate put him past the likes of Ian Smith as a wicket keeper bat, for mine.

Boult got us to a WC final, our only one, and has been ranked at one time the second best ODI bowler in the world. Hard to leave him out. Very hard indeed.

You can make a better argument for Boult than Ronchi. If high scores were a criteria we should select The Chin because he cracked 174 odd in the match where we could've been the first team to make 400. Though I do recognise that Ronchi did it down the order when we were in a bit of trouble. But personally, I don't think he's done enough just yet. My keepers for the squad would be Baz and Parore.

 

[NZTailender]

Also, bear in mind that from a simulator perspective, an ATG 24 is going to have so much cake in it that you need some pure icing players. There's no real need to pick a low strike-rate no. 6 and 7 if your top five has Guptill, Astle, Williamson, Taylor and Crowe in it. This puts players like Anderson and Ronchi at a premium.

Cairns tbf.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Cairns tbf.

Heh, I wanted Lance in my sim team. Striking at over 100 and bowling at 4.30. Excellent choice sir.

 

[NZTailender]

Using a 75 match criteria like in your other thread, KV81 (so much cooler username btw, like IG-88 from Star Wars).

Batsmen: R Taylor, K Williamson, M Crowe, N Astle, R Twose, M Guptill, S Fleming
Keepers: B McCullum, A Parore
All-rounders: C Cairns, C Harris, R Hadlee, D Vettori, J Oram, S Styris, BL Cairns, J Coney
Bowlers: S Bond, K Mills, E Chatfield, T Southee, D Morrison, G Larsen, M Snedden

With a provisional XI of

1. N Astle
2. M Guptill
3. K Williamson
4. M Crowe
5. R Taylor
6. C Cairns
7. B McCullum+
8. R Hadlee
9. D Vettori
10. K Mills
11. S Bond

 

[cnerd123]

Bangladesh

Batsmen: Tamim Iqbal, Mohammad Ashraful, Mahmudullah, Nasir Hossain, Akram Khan, Athar Ali Khan, Mehrab Hossain, Sabbir Rahman, Soumya Sarkar
Bowlers: Abdur Razzak, Mashrafe Mortaza, Rubel Hossain, Nazmul Hossain, Hasibul Hossain, Taskin Ahmed, Shafiul Islam, Tapash Baisya, Syed Rasel
All Rounders: Shakib Al Hasan, Mushfiqur Rahim, Mohammad Rafique, Alok Kapali, Khaled Mahmud, Khaled Mashud

Should have Mustafizur there IMO.

And I didn't notice it on first reading, but having quoted it now to make that joke I notice you left out Aminul Islam. Maybe he can take Khaled Mahmud's slot?

Kinda depressing that Khaled Mahmud, Alok Kapali, Athar Ali Khan all make this squad tho.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I like that provisional XI. That's coming close to what my simulator suggests is the strongest XI.

Hard to drop Andrew Jones and keep Stephen Fleming. Jones had a considerably higher average in a considerably lower-scoring era.

I like the idea of Lance Cairns, as I want the different eras to be represented (this was my reason for John Wright's initial inclusion).

 

[NZTailender]

I like that provisional XI. That's coming close to what my simulator suggests is the strongest XI.

Hard to drop Andrew Jones and keep Stephen Fleming. Jones had a considerably higher average in a considerably lower-scoring era.

I like the idea of Lance Cairns, as I want the different eras to be represented (this was my reason for John Wright's initial inclusion).

Jones SR tho. Also, 3 runs isn't that considerably higher IMO. I'd take Fleming's 32 @ 71 over Jones 35 @ 55. Also an ATG slips fielder, and then he can captain obv.

The 2nd XI from that 24 would be something like:

1. J Oram
2. S Fleming
3. S Styris
4. R Twose
5. C Harris
6. J Coney
7. A Parore+
8. BL Cairns
9. T Southee
10. E Chatfield
11. D Morrison

I'd be inclined actually to perhaps include McMillan or Jones for Larsen in the squad, actually

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

Jones SR tho. Also, 3 runs isn't that considerably higher IMO. I'd take Fleming's 32 @ 71 over Jones 35 @ 55. Also an ATG slips fielder, and then he can captain obv.

Genuine question.

Are you sure Oram should be displaced in favour of Vettori, Mills and Cairns?

 

[kiwiviktor81]

The other factor is that Jones was clearly the second best batsman only to Crowe for a long time, and that he was pretty much an automatic No. 3 pick in an ATG side for decades until the freakshow named KW came along.

In any case, he's clearly better than Wright, who had a similar SR.

Moreover, in the simulator Jones's SR usually goes up a lot in an ATG side because he has much better players ahead of him, therefore bats in situations with fewer wickets down than he did in real life, and therefore can take more risks and score quicker.

And 36 at 55 in Jones's era is probably worth about 40 at 65 in Fleming's one. I'd be interested to see some standardised ODI averages.

 

[NZTailender]

The other factor is that Jones was clearly the second best batsman only to Crowe for a long time, and that he was pretty much an automatic No. 3 pick in an ATG side for decades until the freakshow named KW came along.

In any case, he's clearly better than Wright, who had a similar SR.

Moreover, in the simulator Jones's SR usually goes up a lot in an ATG side because he has much better players ahead of him, therefore bats in situations with fewer wickets down than he did in real life, and therefore can take more risks and score quicker.

And 36 at 55 in Jones's era is probably worth about 40 at 65 in Fleming's one. I'd be interested to see some standardised ODI averages.

Jones was a pretty selfish player, though, by his own admission hence his good averages at a slower S/R.

 

[NZTailender]

Genuine question.

Are you sure Oram should be displaced in favour of Vettori, Mills and Cairns?

Not sure I follow your question? Cairns is a better batsman and Mills and Vettori somewhat more effective with the ball. Where would he be displaced from??

Edit: in that Oram averages 29 with the ball is pretty good, 2 runs better than Cairns and Vettori with a great E/R. Shows he is one of our more underrated players of all time. Underachieved with the bat though and was viewed as a specialist bowler in the later part of his career. His bowling stats are pretty flattering though as he ran riot against minnows.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I'd be inclined actually to perhaps include McMillan or Jones for Larsen in the squad, actually

Drop Larsen? Maybe for Ambrose or S Pollock.